Join the Dark Side, why I hate Obi Wan now.

[Brian37]

Yes it is just a movie, so read this with a grain of salt.

There isn't much that has changed in pop culture. I may catch some flack for the following, but I have had a change of position on the original Star Wars series. Of course it is the old standard of "Good vs Evil". And yes kind motifs of being there for your friends, loyalty and standing up to the bully. However, it still reflects the popularity of religion, even if fiction.

In one scene Luke is practicing his light saber skills on the Falcon, Han makes rightful skeptic remarks to the idea of religion. Obi Wan tells him to "trust his feelings", then puts on the blast shield and successfully while blind, defends himself from the mechanical training ball. I really hate this constant marketing in all media of playing off of people's feelings.

In real training, such as the Hudson river landing, it wasn't "feelings" that got that plane down safely, but training, and even mechanical redundancy that pilots are trained in pre flight simulators to simulate such events prior to the reality of one actually happening.

But, the most insidious meme in "Return of the Jedi", smacks of similarities of Saul, being a former monster whom becomes good and forgiven and becomes Paul. Darth Vadar from the first movie, is a dictator, genocidal and even kills those who fail him, not once, but several times. In the final minutes in the last battle between Luke and Darth Vadar, Darth realizes his mistake and turns on his own evil master and kills him to save Luke. Luke then tries to save him. Sounds nice.

It is one thing to realize you have hurt others. It is another to let your brains fall out and forgive a monster. This move reflects the same horrible logic of the god/s of Abraham. But Brian, it is just fiction. I will still give it credit for it's time being a visual masterpiece, well acted, and brilliant music score. But I cannot bring myself to value the same old crap of distorting human morality to comic book levels. I cannot value a meme that teaches us to go with our feelings. The Death Star alone, paints technology as evil, and is so dominating in that series it gets you to forget that the heros are also using technology to defeat them.

No, don't "trust your feelings". It is ok to have them, but we don't need mass media telling us in any form that "feelings" constitute truth. I have come to hate Obi Wan as much as Darth Vadar, just like I hate both God and Satan.

[stromboli]

Please don't take this as a criticism; I respect you as a person. Have you considered therapy?

[FrankDK]

Another similarity with current religions is the variability of morals.  When Luke is facing the Emperor, he is tempted to "fetch" his light sabre with the force, but doesn't because it would be wrong.  Yet, many other times, Luke and other Jedis do exactly that.

The Force is a cafeteria religion, like Christianity.

Frank

[Brian37]

Did you read the first line? Not being a sheep over pop culture does not mean I need therapy. Yes it is just a movie. But still doesn't change that it has very horrible memes in it.

The dictator Darth despite all his murderous actions and oppression is forgiven in the end. That meme goes way beyond merely forgiving someone for something non violent, such as lying to a friend, or hurting their feelings.

And again, humans have feelings, we wouldn't evolve without them. The character Obi Wan teaches us the same thing "faith" does in reality, to go with what science knows and psychology knows is notoriously flawed, our perceptions.

Pointing these horrible memes out does not mean I am advocating any serious censorship in reality. Just giving people something to think about to be aware that pop culture does have an influence on us.

Secondly, at least with me, don't use the word "respect". I hate that word. I prefer what I say to be "valued", not "respected". If you think I am full of shit, not just on this issue, but on even real issues, then "respect" is not something you should do. When claims are credible they don't need to be "respected". They get the shit kicked out of them and survive despite the shit kicking.

[stromboli]

I for one find it a tad disturbing that you focus in on it in that light. It is a fiction created as a mashup of western/samurai stereotypes with a faux religion thrown in. In case you hadn't noticed, you seem to have an obsessive personality- Abba, the Redskins and now this.

[Plu]

The dictator Darth despite all his murderous actions and oppression is forgiven in the end. That meme goes way beyond merely forgiving someone for something non violent, such as lying to a friend, or hurting their feelings.

I dunno. If you don't forgive people for the bad things they do, there's no reason for them to stop doing bad things. The only way to ever get people to actually try and improve is if you're willing to let them make amends and forgive them for the past.

The character Obi Wan teaches us the same thing "faith" does in reality, to go with what science knows and psychology knows is notoriously flawed, our perceptions.

There is a minor difference... in the Star Wars universe faith actually works. I wouldn't object to people having faith in our world if they could use it to force choke people and dodge bullets blindfolded.

[Solitary]

You seem to be obsessed about him being obsessed.    Solitary

[Brian37]

No one is saying you don't forgive, but that does not mean you forget, and certainly you don't give monsters a pass.

If anyone in my family became a serial killer, whatever kindness they showed outside their crimes still would not negate what they did. It is the same mental mind trap Christianity dodges with the OT god and NT god. The OT god is violent and bloodthirsty, in the NT there is a half assed attempt to say "I won't do that anymore", but at the end of the book, this god goes right back to being a vengeful prick.

Again, there is a huge difference between forgiving someone for something minor and non violent, and forgiving a repeat violent offender.

Now most of the time while it does no good to get revenge yourself, you be foolish to let it go. In reality I am not for revenge punishment, but containment. So with the "Darth" character, if in the movie had lived, I would have put in prison for life, even if he had said he was sorry.

[Plu]

There's no real telling what would've happened if Darth Vader survived, though. Just because Luke tried to save him doesn't mean he was just going to let him get off the hook after.

(Also, it shouldn't count as "repeat offender" if someone does something multiple times before the first time they actually try to change. Repeat offender should be about relapse, not repition.)

[Brian37]

I for one find it a tad disturbing that you focus in on it in that light. It is a fiction created as a mashup of western/samurai stereotypes with a faux religion thrown in. In case you hadn't noticed, you seem to have an obsessive personality- Abba, the Redskins and now this.

Yes, because I am not famous or rich. Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens, are ok critics of religion, because they made it. Poor no names do the same thing and they are "obsessed".

As far as ABBA or the Redskins those are my personal tastes. Go look around the net at other avatars, you find people have all sorts of avatars that display their personal tastes. Since when is it illegal for people to make displays of the personal things they like?

Now, go re read the first line in this OP ED until you get it.I am serious about some issues yes. But I always find it funny when people take me more seriously than I take myself.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Well at least he's not obsessed with freefall and the WTC and secret gubnit agents sabotaging all of it then blaming it all on innocent Muslim terrorists.

GEEZ, now suddenly I'm the defender of Brian?   8-[

[Brian37]

There's no real telling what would've happened if Darth Vader survived, though. Just because Luke tried to save him doesn't mean he was just going to let him get off the hook after.

(Also, it shouldn't count as "repeat offender" if someone does something multiple times before the first time they actually try to change. Repeat offender should be about relapse, not repition.)

Um it is implied. The last scene of "Return of the Jedi", the are all celebrating in the forest and Luke looks up to the tree branch with the ghosts of Obi, Yoda and Anikan(Darth Vadar) standing on it. Luke smiles at them. Looks like forgiveness to me.

Still I don't care if they don't repeat in real life. There is a huge difference between accidental death, heat of passion, and repeated murder which the Darth character committed. People who murder can have regret and not repeat, yes. But selfish people who keep doing it are too far gone mentally and are sociopaths and psychopaths in reality.

Darth is the Hitler of that movie. The "storm trooper" name came from the Nazis, and the over sized helmets were a reflection of German helmets along with the officer green motifs under Darth. The empire in the movie was literally modeled off of Germany's WW2 Nazis.

[Brian37]

Well at least he's not obsessed with freefall and the WTC and secret gubnit agents sabotaging all of it then blaming it all on innocent Muslim terrorists.

GEEZ, now suddenly I'm the defender of Brian?   8-[

Thank you. ABBA hasn't been accused of bringing down the towers, but give it time, I'll be part of the WTC conspiracy at some point.

Maybe if he played "Dancing Queen" backwards, they'll find a secret message from Bush giving the hijackers the ok to plant the explosives.

[Plu]

Yeah the final scene is a bit weird. I've always understood the idea was that in the end a corruption was lifted from Darth Vader, and that was why he was returned as a normal being. But I can see your point yeah. Up until that scene it seems to work, but the last scene is a bit of a stretch.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

***prepares to defend Brian......except about ABBA.....and Redskins....and uhhh Obi Wan.. (or pretty much everything)  :)