Author Topic: God bless you!  (Read 9068 times)

Re: God bless you!
« Reply #75 on: February 23, 2014, 07:10:46 PM »
Quote from: "Jason78"
Woah!  What happened to corn between 1951 and 1971?

This guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug

Re: God bless you!
« Reply #76 on: February 23, 2014, 08:11:05 PM »

Re: God bless you!
« Reply #77 on: February 25, 2014, 06:32:09 AM »
Quote from: "Icarus"
Quote from: "Jason78"
Woah!  What happened to corn between 1951 and 1971?

This guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug

Wow!
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Re: God bless you!
« Reply #78 on: February 25, 2014, 04:25:37 PM »
Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
So far, the only person with anything resembling the correct answer is moralnihilist, though in what I hope is not an emo fashion. The answer is entropy. Entropy is the one observable law of the cosmos. All things ordered proceed to disorder.

What are the other laws of thermodynamics, chopped liver? And you seem to have your own definition of what 'observable' means, because all of the physical laws are observable.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
It's not the speed of light in a vacuum or anything like that. That's all relative, but entropy is a constant.

Entropy is not a constant. Its rate is variable, and it can be reversed in a small area at the expense of increasing the overall rate of entropy.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
Or is someone aware of a self-sustaining source of matter? Energy?

Nope, but that still doesn't make Entropy a constant.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
Now, why do I ask such questions? Well, this is the place for introductions, is it not? Clearly, just coming out and saying I'm a Christian generates all manner of responses, some of which say a great deal about the people who worded them. Manodo wisely observes that atheism is not a religion, but all evidence to the contrary. Some people here behave exactly as though they were part of one in the presence of a heathen.

I wouldn't say theism. We've been in the company of people who ask stupid leading questions more times than I can count, perhaps you're sensing the weight of our collective weariness with the tactic.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
Food for thought, were I capable of such.

If you can type, you can think, if you bother trying.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
Dawkins would find it interesting.

Why should we care what Dawkins finds interesting?

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
I am more interested in the truth of matters. I've already told you what I am here for. If anything, I should be considered an ally in some people's imaginary war against the ignorance of religion. I am faithful, but I am not so much a fool that I ignore the universe around me. It vexes me that so many of the people I would call brothers and sisters in faith cannot see past that which they are told to believe, and simply pointing out that the bible is mathematically flawed does little to dampen their extremely literal and often selective interpretations.

You seem to think you know what we have to say in advance of us saying it.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
It concerns me not one whit that most of the members here are atheists of some type or another. Live your life as you choose, and I shall do the same. If that involves praying for you or asking God to bless you, deal with it.

Because those things only work if you tell us about them, like Voodoo. Right?

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
There is no harm done in practicing my religion, unless we're willing to try crimes of thought as per an inquisitorial edict.

We have no idea what you're up to in your head unless you tell us. You seem to be saying that you're going to be telling us. Thanks for the heads up.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
I offer only a fair trade. From me, you can get some perspective on the views of the faithful, and from you lot, I can hopefully glean some more arguments to use against those who shine with so much faith that it blinds them.

Sure.  

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
I'm not here to convert you, though all are welcome. If I sell you anything, it will be a new appreciation for the world you live in, which is nothing less than divine if you look at it the right way. Dawkins made a believer out of me, despite being an atheist himself, and he was wise enough to not discount the presence of a God.

Most of us don't discount the presence of a God, either. Dawkins is not atypical in that regard. Know your audience.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
There is an order to the world that is not readily apparent to people who pray to the unseen or cast aside the notion of design simply because they cannot see it.


It's not that we can't see design. It's that we can explain why some things look designed when they aren't.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
The order is, of course, order itself. Some people look at the world and see chaos. I see more people, more high forms of life, creating ever more miraculous things. Or did that change when I wasn't looking?

Order is an inevitable product of chaos. It would be a form of order in itself if chaotic systems never produced order. As you observed, the available order in the universe is always decreasing.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
Is humanity on its way to destruction due to religion?

I don't think religion will actually destroy us, although some versions may be a contributing factor in our ultimate demise.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
How about anything else? Speculate as you will, Christianity owns the world. Well, the first world, anyway. Mayhap there is something to learn from the example.

Get the emperor of Rome to outlaw all other cults but yours?

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
Maybe assuming that you are of superior intellect just because you spit on people with faith is not the enlightened thing you believe it to be. Locke certainly didn't endorse that, and it is to him you primarily owe your faith.

Most people of faith are decent, hardworking, peaceful people for the most part, and I wouldn't dream of spitting on them. It's the condescending strawman-building bigots that too often claim to speak for them that give me the feeling that I have a superior intellect, but only in comparison. As far as our 'faith', you seem to be a Humpty-Dumptyist: words mean whatever you want them to, no more, no less. Pardon us if we don't agree to follow you down that particular rabbit-hole.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
Anyhow, I look forward to the intelligent discussion I have seen glimpses of here. Those of you who think me easy prey because I call Jesus my savior are in for a nasty surprise.

I don't think you're easy prey because you believe in Jesus. I think you're easy prey because you're a pretentious pettifogger who crafts insults into the fabric of your false assertions and loaded questions while trying to take the moral high ground by judging your interlocuters unworthy in advance. The dishonest approach is not the smart one.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
I am not here to beggar your pathetic attempts at insult. At least the faithful challenge me with scripture, however convenient and contradicted.

Are you one of those people who think they are being polite because they're not using 'bad' words?

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
Those of you who cannot quote your own scripture might as well shove off. I did not come all this way to entertain the opinions of every idiot left of the bell-curve who assumes that they are somehow correct in assumption of things they know nothing about. The faith has its share of those, and so does the big-bang theory. Neither are of any more interest than tirelessly worn books of Goodall's.

I dare you to do a more thorough job of poisoning the well.

Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
But enough of that. This is the place for introductions and welcomes. I've told you who I am, why I think the way I do. You know me now. It is my earnest hope that I will come to know you, to see the world through different eyes. Is that so wrong? Careful, you might find yourself thinking like a Christian before long :p

I already regret learning what I have already about you. Your mendacity will prevent you from ever truly understanding our position, which isn't wrong, just a waste of your time if THAT were actually your goal instead of entertaining yourself by stirring the pot. There are worse things than coming to think like a Christian. One of them would be coming to think like you.
Atheists are not anti-Christian. They are anti-stupid.--WitchSabrina

Re: God bless you!
« Reply #79 on: February 25, 2014, 04:32:04 PM »
Quote from: "Passion of Christ"
Quote from: "Sal1981"
Quote from: "Passion of Christ"
Tell that to Giordano Bruno and all the "witches" who were burned at the stake.

You have about 40,000 witches burned at the stake over 300 years (Jesus didn't particularly insist that anyone should do this) and 90+ million people killed by secular/atheist Communist governments in 100 years just for a comparison.

The communists had machine guns, and if you're going to count people killed by any atheist against atheists, any people killed by theists must count against theists. Not just the Crusades and Inquisition, but the human sacrifices of South American civilizations, for instance; and recent genocides in Africa.

If you want to compare Catholics and communists, that's one thing, but you're making a category error to compare Catholics and atheists. I have as much in common with Stalin because I'm an atheist as you do with bin Laden because you're a theist.
Atheists are not anti-Christian. They are anti-stupid.--WitchSabrina

Re: God bless you!
« Reply #80 on: February 25, 2014, 04:43:02 PM »
Quote from: "Passion of Christ"
Quote from: "Sal1981"

Oh please, you want a pissing contest over semantics? Guess who Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot modeled their governments after; you'll be surprised.

I don't think they modeled them on the teachings of Jesus Christ and loving your enemy, turning the other cheek and caring for the oppressed and needy. Many Christian nations didn't particularly either but at least they were supposed to do in theory. Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were supposed to decide whatever was right was right seeing as they had all the supreme authority to decide everything for themselves for everyone, something they very much liked about the atheism deal.

Actually, you'd be hard put to prove any of them was really an atheist. Pol Pot and Mao were Buddhists who repeatedly referred to heaven and Mao once commented that he would soon be called to God. Stalin was a hardcore atheist, though.

So: Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao; all theists. Stalin, atheist.

The only reason not to be more specific than theist and atheist is in hopes of casting your net wide enough to imply that the person you disgree with is somehow responsible for those body counts. After all, what's the fun of comparing Catholics and communist if neither of us is a Catholic or communist? Which is why theists never seem to bring up the body count of the atheists we have the most in common with: humanists.
Atheists are not anti-Christian. They are anti-stupid.--WitchSabrina

Re: God bless you!
« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2014, 04:51:12 PM »
Quote from: "MitchellDaBomb"
passion is completely right. humanity would be nothing without the moral code and divine manifestation of knowledge from the holy books...religion helps the unification process..although the separation of the faith puts us in greater disarray.
and for all you who tout the advancement of science into the observable universe....realize how useless it is when we cannot even solve any of the problems on earth...since science is straying away from our moral values..it is becoming more and more prone to error..and used for malice(mostly).

In the last 200 years we gave gone from being a planet with 90% of its human inhabitants in extreme poverty (subsistence farming with hand tools) to being a planet with 15% of its human inhabitants in those straights, and heading lower. Science and economic growth have done more for the living conditions of humans than anything else, ever. In that period, we have given up the practice of legal chattelry of humans, and despite the efficiency of our devices, fewer people as a percentage of the population die in war than ever before in recorded history. Our morals aren't getting worse, they're improving , because we very slowly learn from our mistakes as we go along.

It's hard to respect someone who calls science useless over the internet.
Atheists are not anti-Christian. They are anti-stupid.--WitchSabrina

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: God bless you!
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2014, 04:56:34 PM »
Quote from: "Passion of Christ"
You have about 40,000 witches burned at the stake over 300 years (Jesus didn't particularly insist that anyone should do this) and 90+ million people killed by secular/atheist Communist governments in 100 years just for a comparison.
Adolf Hitler, Roman Catholic, had approximately 11 million people killed due to his religious belief that the Aryan race was descended from Adam and Eve, and all other races were abominations before God.

75 million Native Americans have been killed over the course of 500 years by the intervention of Christian governments subduing them and/or making room for their own settlers. Some of it was caused by the natural spread of European diseases, but a large portion was also caused by the British and later the Americans giving tribes blankets infected with smallpox, as well as direct conquest. Let us also not forget the sterilization programs that came to light in the 80's that has hastened the death of these cultures.

The Crusades were nothing short of Biblically-inspired massacre.

Modern atrocities in Africa are nothing short of Biblically-inspired slaughter.

Shit like Jonestown can only happen as a result of religion.

Let us also not forget the numerous atrocities, such as the systematic capturing and enslavement of the peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa, and numerous other acts that didn't necessarily result in death but were nonetheless just as evil.


And this is just what Christianity has done. If I get started on other religions, such as the Mongol shamanistic religion that drove them to wipe whole cities off the map with their bare hands, we'll be here all day.
"Existence is beautiful, if you let it be. Life is not a question. There does not need to be an answer."
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Offline Deidre32

Re: God bless you!
« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2014, 07:02:56 PM »
Quote from: "Corporal Cross"
Hello, and thank you for reading! Please allow me to begin by saying that I am a Christian. It would take an act of divine revelation to change that. Even so, I have seen a lot of excellent points and well-considered opinions on this forum, which is why I am here. So why am I here? The twain are not mutually exclusive.

I am here because there is no shortage of idiocy on either side of the religious fence. For every passage-pruning, preening parochial puissant there is an arrogant, avant-garde, atheist admonisher. I see little difference between the two. I see humans competing for dominance. I would rather hear some sensible arguments that I might use to curb the religious fanaticism of my peers without offending them. Naturally, this does not extend to the mocking, self-righteous new religion asserting that God cannot be proven. I am as keenly aware of the absence of proof as I am the existence of it, and I don't need a cleric to educate me as to all the ways I have sinned in a world with God or without.

Mostly, I am interested in the personal views of atheists and even the faithful who have ended up here. There is little point in speculating about a higher order or lack thereof if one cannot discern what it is made of. So when I show up challenging your faith or lack of it, please know that it is done in the spirit of greater understanding, not malice.

That said, I leave all here with a simple question, to test faithful of any kind. What is the one observable law of the universe?

I was once a Christian. Welcome to the forum!

I'm now an Agnostic, and my path came to this rather naturally. No one knows...NO ONE...whether there is a god or not. Agnosticism allows for me to be open minded, yet logical, at the same time. I believe in facts. I think (know) the Bible is a lot of fable, and myth, presented as truth as to control the masses. (way back when, but it still can be seen as a controlling tool, today)

Agnosticism to me, is living my most authentic self. No one knows, one way or the other. And the beauty is, I don't feel that internal struggle anymore to prove this one or that one wrong. If you are a Christian, my only unsolicited advice for you, is to know why you believe what you do. Embrace what you believe because it honestly makes sense, to you. If you believe in a Christian idea of 'god,' then live it. There's nothing worse to me, than someone who touts that he/she is religious, but lives their life with no real conviction. In other words, don't follow what you do, out of fear.

Christianity (to me) breeds fear. But, I will not clutter your intro post here with MY issues.  8-)  lol

Hope you enjoy the forums here! :)

PS--There's an old but very good saying. For those who believe, no explanation is needed. For those who do not, no explanation will ever be enough.

No truer words were ever spoken. Faith or lack thereof, is one's personal journey of discovery. I can't and won't tell another person that he/she is 'wrong,' to believe in a god. We all have to seek truth on our own, whatever that truth ends up being.
The only lasting beauty, is the beauty of the heart. - Rumi

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: God bless you!
« Reply #84 on: February 25, 2014, 07:09:22 PM »
There are several observable laws, but none involve Big Spooky aka god.
All hail my new signature!

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Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: God bless you!
« Reply #85 on: February 25, 2014, 07:27:04 PM »
CC, perhaps it never dawned on you that not everyone is as  good at spinning words as others. Preachers are usually quite adept at spin tactics. its how they con people out of money and just because youre a skilled spin doctor it doesnt make you better at  jack shit other than spin. im quite plain spoken, but your spin is less impressive than the fact that shit sticks to toilet paper. Keep trying though. You might even learn somethingk but Im not holding my breath.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.