Noam Chomsky

[VladK]

From the perspective of a non-American, I can't believe so many Americans think Noam Chomsky is one of the greatest intellectuals of all time. He's a loonie with an agenda who should probably stick to science.

http://www.alternet.org/chomsky-no-wond ... est-threat

The man's political views are incredibly biased against his own country. He thinks the USA is the greatest threat to world peace, even though American values have created one of the most advanced, freest societies in the world, and American intervention has often helped the world get rid of several unsavory characters like Hitler or the communists. Yes that's right, US is supposedly the greatest threat to world peace, it's not North Korea with its psychopath man-child daddy's boy mentality dictator, it's not Iran with its nuclear ambitions and Islamofascist government, it's not Saudi Arabia who funds cultural jihad with petro-dollars, building mosques all over the world, spreading their repressive dogma, it isn't China with its still communist regime or the authoritarian-style Russian Federation masked as a pseudo-democracy, it isn't Egypt, the unstable birthplace of the Muslim Brotherhood who has tried to revive Islam as a political entity not just in the Islamic world but the west as well through propaganda front groups.

No... it's MURICCAAAA! They're the Big Satan.

As for the poll that supposedly shows a good chunk of the world thinks US is the greatest threat to peace, well, what most people think or what a plurality of people think doesn't really matter in terms of establishing truth. Personally, I think the world would be more peaceful if every country was a copy of the United States or even of the EU. But that will probably not happen to due human nature and bad ideologies.

[SGOS]

It's been a long time since anyone has brought up Noam Chomsky.  I thought he was on his way to becoming a vague memory.  I even read a book of his once.  Sometimes I agreed with him.  Sometimes I thought he was trying hard to be sensational, but I thought he was at least as articulate as Rush Limbaugh, although much softer spoken.  He must have made a bigger impression on others than he did on me, because he sure pissed a lot of people off.

[Plu]

Make an honest guess of how many wars/interventions the US has fought in since World War II. Then, after guessing, click the spoiler and see how close you were.

[spoil:1bwd8oru]United States Intervention in Greek Election, 1947-1949
Operation PBFORTUNE, Guatemala, 1952
Operation Ajax, US overthrow of Iranian Government, 1953
Operation PBSUCCESS, Guatemala, 1954
Bay of Pigs Invasion, Cuba, 1961
Operation Powerpack, Dominican Republic, 1965 - 1966
Korean War, 1950 - 1953
United States overthrow of Guatemalan Government, 1907-1933
Operation Blue Bat, Lebanon, 1958
United States Intervention at Panama Canal, 1958
Vietnam War, 1962 - 1973
United States Occupation of Laos, 1962 - 1973
United States Intervention at Panama Canal, 1964
Cambodian Civil War, 1969 - 1970
United States Overthrow of Chilean Government, 1964
Turkish invasion of Cyprus, 1974
Operation Eagle Claw, Iran hostage crisis, 1980
First Gulf of Sidra Incident, Libya, 1981
Contra War, El Salvador, 1981-1990
Occupation of Beirut, Lebanon, 1982-1984
Invasion of Grenada, Grenada, 1983-1984
Operation El Dorado Canyon, Libya, 1986
Iran-Iraq War, 1987 - 1989
Operation Just Cause, Panama 1989 - 1990
Second Gulf of Sidra Incident, Libya, 1989
Persian Gulf War, Iraq, 1991
Operation Desert Shield, 1991
Operation Desert Storm, 1991
Somali Civil War, 1992 - 1994
Operation Provide Relief, 1992
Operation Restore Hope, 1992 - 1994
Yugoslav wars, 1994 - 1999
Bosnian Conflict, 1994 - 1995
Kosovo Conflict, 1997 - 1999
War on Terrorism, 2001 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Afghanistan 2001 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Philippines 2002 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Horn of Africa 2002 - present
Operation Iraqi Freedom, 2003 - present
Waziristan War, 2004 - present
War in Somalia, 2006 - present
Operation Iraqi Freedom - Trans Sahara 2007 - present[/spoil:1bwd8oru]

[SGOS]

Make an honest guess of how many wars/interventions the US has fought in since World War II. Then, after guessing, click the spoiler and see how close you were.

To be honest, I never made an actual numerical guess. I just thought "A shitload" was close enough.  I thought the list would be longer, however.

[Plu]

[spoil:2vhuopqk]It's 42 interventions or wars in about 70 years. That's slightly more than one every 2 years. The past 20 years it's been closer to one every year, and there are currently 7 active war zones. That's a lot, especially when you're trying to make a claim that the US is bringing peace to the world.[/spoil:2vhuopqk]

[josephpalazzo]

Make an honest guess of how many wars/interventions the US has fought in since World War II. Then, after guessing, click the spoiler and see how close you were.

[spoil:3960z74p]United States Intervention in Greek Election, 1947-1949
Operation PBFORTUNE, Guatemala, 1952
Operation Ajax, US overthrow of Iranian Government, 1953
Operation PBSUCCESS, Guatemala, 1954
Bay of Pigs Invasion, Cuba, 1961
Operation Powerpack, Dominican Republic, 1965 - 1966
Korean War, 1950 - 1953
United States overthrow of Guatemalan Government, 1907-1933
Operation Blue Bat, Lebanon, 1958
United States Intervention at Panama Canal, 1958
Vietnam War, 1962 - 1973
United States Occupation of Laos, 1962 - 1973
United States Intervention at Panama Canal, 1964
Cambodian Civil War, 1969 - 1970
United States Overthrow of Chilean Government, 1964
Turkish invasion of Cyprus, 1974
Operation Eagle Claw, Iran hostage crisis, 1980
First Gulf of Sidra Incident, Libya, 1981
Contra War, El Salvador, 1981-1990
Occupation of Beirut, Lebanon, 1982-1984
Invasion of Grenada, Grenada, 1983-1984
Operation El Dorado Canyon, Libya, 1986
Iran-Iraq War, 1987 - 1989
Operation Just Cause, Panama 1989 - 1990
Second Gulf of Sidra Incident, Libya, 1989
Persian Gulf War, Iraq, 1991
Operation Desert Shield, 1991
Operation Desert Storm, 1991
Somali Civil War, 1992 - 1994
Operation Provide Relief, 1992
Operation Restore Hope, 1992 - 1994
Yugoslav wars, 1994 - 1999
Bosnian Conflict, 1994 - 1995
Kosovo Conflict, 1997 - 1999
War on Terrorism, 2001 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Afghanistan 2001 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Philippines 2002 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Horn of Africa 2002 - present
Operation Iraqi Freedom, 2003 - present
Waziristan War, 2004 - present
War in Somalia, 2006 - present
Operation Iraqi Freedom - Trans Sahara 2007 - present[/spoil:3960z74p]

The US is the world police simply by virtue of the strength of its army -- its military budget equals the next 10 countries combined military budgets. Does it intervene for the right reasons? Most likely not. But then again, if the US would abandon that role, it would be quickly filled by the likes of China, Russia or any country that wants to bully around for whatever reason. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know.

http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0053_defense-comparison

[Plu]

I know. The fact that it's responsible for 40% of the world's spending on weapons is another reason why it's difficult to see them as a "force for peace". Especially considering US defense spending is big business and money needs to be made from those weapons. Or at least that's how it looks to the rest of the world.

[Solitary]

When a country invades another country based on out right lies and kills civilians, even children, and claims it is for peace like Bush did they are the greatest threat to world peace. How many other countries have recently invaded another country besides the United States? We have the largest military force throughout the world with the most redundant weapons of mass destruction. We support the dictators of the world with millions of dollars, we put Saddam Hussein and Osama Ben laden in power and supplied them with weapons, killed both of them and Hussein's sons. Has any other country done that to another country recently? We love war because it makes the super rich of the world richer like those in Saudi Arabia etc. while claiming to be the peace makers.

We think money can buy off everyone, but the terrorists know better after our CEO's destroy their countries economically, their environments, for their oil and natural resources, and cheap labor. Oliver North supplied weapons to our enemies. We talk about making the Middle East a democracy by destroying them, and ignore all the blood shed in Africa and poverty in other countries, even our own. violence begets violence through history has shown, and now, even in our cities. People are scared of our government, even here in our own country, from Police State tactics used against protestors that are a threat to Wall Street.  We are the Bullies of the world, and the disenfranchised are fighting back for freedom and peace, telling us to mind our own business, and mind the problems we have in our own country that is destroying our work force.      Solitary

[josephpalazzo]

I know. The fact that it's responsible for 40% of the world's spending on weapons is another reason why it's difficult to see them as a "force for peace". Especially considering US defense spending is big business and money needs to be made from those weapons. Or at least that's how it looks to the rest of the world.

I'm not sure I would qualify the US as a "force for peace", but nevertheless, I would guess that the number of conflicts in the world would drastically rise without the US as the world police. Just take the conflict between China and Japan over Senkakus in Japan and Diaoyus in China. Without the US, that conflict would have easily sparked a war between these two countries. Most countries in Southeast Asia are living under the US umbrella in fear that China would just walk all over them. In Europe, you can bet that Russia would have done the same a long time ago, and will still do it in the future if ever the US decides to go home.

[VladK]

The fact that it's responsible for 40% of the world's spending on weapons is another reason why it's difficult to see them as a "force for peace".

The problem is, peace and pacifism are two different things. I don't think it's fair to say that someone is dangerous merely because he has more and better guns. It's how they are used.

(On the opposite extreme however a US with a theoretical 0 military spending wouldn't be a force for peace, all it would be is an impotent and vulnerable target.)

Also as someone pointed out already, if the US isn't a world power, others will fill the void. It's a cruel cruel world out there with some really bad power-hungry people.

[Solitary]

hypotheticals are just maybe's. Why are we the so-called Peace Makers and not the United Nation's Peace force? It's because every other country in the world fears us knowing how we bombed Japan and killed civilians, invaded Viet Nam doing the same, North Korea doing the same, supplying weapons to the very terrorist that are a threat to us now while fighting a cold war with Russia being stupid enough to think a political ideals can be destroyed by military action anymore than a religious one can. Maybe Saddam had weapons of mass destruction---well so does China and Pakistan. Our country tries to shove Democracy down everyone's throats just like religion does. It's not going to happen, anymore than us becoming a communist country, or a theocracy by military action. This is why Peace is a delusion because every country thinks it can push it's ideals with the military, even religious ones. All this fear rhetoric is just propaganda used as an excuse to go to war for whatever reasons.    Solitary

[VladK]

When a country invades another country based on out right lies and kills civilians, even children, and claims it is for peace like Bush did they are the greatest threat to world peace. How many other countries have recently invaded another country besides the United States?

Just to stop you there for a minute, the US is constantly blamed for Iraq.

Why however is Iraq blameless? Even if you disagree with the invasion, which in all fairness was probably a bad idea to begin with, you have to admit that the people there had a great opportunity and they blew it thanks to Islam and thanks to a backward culture. Instead of welcoming the fall of a murderous dictator and rebuilding their society into an open, secular and democratic one, they prefer bullshit sectarian violence fueled by their intolerant religion and irrational anti-Americanism.

I mean seriously, Romania also had a dictator, there was violence yes, but the country was stable very fast (relatively speaking, it's still a mess in many ways, but it's not a murderous mess.) We weren't invaded sure, but:

Germany was ruled by Nazi dictatorship, but recovered and it's now one of the best places to be in.

Japan was very backward but changed a lot after WWII as well.

[GrinningYMIR]

Saddam was committing Genocide, but sadly that's not why we went in

[Solitary]

if the US isn't a world power, others will fill the void.

And it would be the United Nations, and not the United States, or any other country trying to force the ideal of democracy, or another ideal throughout the world. We talk about human rights. We should look at our own country and see how that is working. Solitary

[VladK]

I wouldn't put much trust in the UN, essentially what it is is a "democracy of tyrants". They sign treaties and form "commissions" most of them never respect (free countries are vastly outnumbered by authoritarian ones at the UN), its human rights council elects members that are in no position to talk about human rights for example China, Cuba, Russia and Saudi Arabia. They do this all the time.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/ ... 9E20131112

It is a very corrupt entity that has failed all its ideals.