Author Topic: A letter to Libertarians.  (Read 4377 times)

Offline Thumpalumpacus

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2014, 12:47:26 PM »
Quote from: "stromboli"
And don't give me that "I'm a Libertarian except I agree with this, this and this" bullshit.

Sorry, but people often don't pigeon-hole that easily.  Some Republicans would permit abortion, others wouldn't.  Some Democrats want higher corporate taxes, others don't. Some green Party members think ALF attacks on research facilities are acceptable, most others don't.

So I use libertarianism as a general guide, and then narrow it down if the conversation is detailed enough to warrant it. Kinda like telling you where I live: if you're just curious, I'll tell you, "Outside of Austin," but if you're coming over for a backyard jam with some barbecue and beer, I'll get more specific.

By the way, even down here, very few people I talk with about this claim libertarianism as their outlook.
<insert witty aphorism here>

Offline stromboli

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2014, 01:08:10 PM »
Which is what I said in the beginning. Libertarian is a word. I've seen it used and misused over and over. What I'm talking about is application. You can claim ideological or political, but how it is applied is the whole point.

Every Libertarian at some point complains about "big government". But big government is application is necessary, as I've pointed out. We are talking about governing 350 million people. We all want to do our thing, i.e. Libertarian, but there has to be laws and there have to be standards and there has to be the means to deal with issues like health care and retirement and so on. You keep talking about Libertarian, but defining it comes down to specific talking points. There is no broad definition that fits.

And I live in Utah. Everybody here is either a Republican or a Libertarian.

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2014, 05:46:56 PM »
Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"
Oh my goodness, your myth about private police sounds exactly like the LAPD on a good day.
I don't think that the LAPD would have to compete with 17 other companies, AND the LAPD has oversight, AND your family wouldn't be held financially accountable. So nope not like the LAPD at all.

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2014, 06:23:38 PM »
The more and more I hear about Libertarians, the more and more I wish they were a political party made out of librarians instead. Their platform would be to pay the national book-fine debts.
Honestly though, I have to echo stromboli's sentiment, as all I've seen seems to highlight a highly divisive and divded ideology that has no real knowledge where it's going or what it's goals are.
"We must respect the other fellow\'s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
 -- H. L. Mencken

Offline The Skeletal Atheist

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2014, 06:27:04 PM »
Quote from: "mykcob4"
Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"
Oh my goodness, your myth about private police sounds exactly like the LAPD on a good day.
I don't think that the LAPD would have to compete with 17 other companies, AND the LAPD has oversight, AND your family wouldn't be held financially accountable. So nope not like the LAPD at all.
Lol the LAPD has oversight.
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!

Offline stromboli

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2014, 06:35:56 PM »
Quote
Lol the LAPD has oversight.

Lol the LAPD has gun sights.

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2014, 08:24:32 AM »
Quote from: "Insult to Rocks"
The more and more I hear about Libertarians, the more and more I wish they were a political party made out of librarians instead. Their platform would be to pay the national book-fine debts.
Honestly though, I have to echo stromboli's sentiment, as all I've seen seems to highlight a highly divisive and divded ideology that has no real knowledge where it's going or what it's goals are.

Unfortunately, too much time, too many threads and too many posts have been devoted to this topics on Atheistforum.com.

 It's embarassing.

Offline Thumpalumpacus

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2014, 12:57:20 PM »
Quote from: "stromboli"
Which is what I said in the beginning. Libertarian is a word. I've seen it used and misused over and over. What I'm talking about is application. You can claim ideological or political, but how it is applied is the whole point.

Every Libertarian at some point complains about "big government". But big government is application is necessary, as I've pointed out. We are talking about governing 350 million people. We all want to do our thing, i.e. Libertarian, but there has to be laws and there have to be standards and there has to be the means to deal with issues like health care and retirement and so on. You keep talking about Libertarian, but defining it comes down to specific talking points. There is no broad definition that fits.

And I live in Utah. Everybody here is either a Republican or a Libertarian.

Well, that's the problem with just about every word in the language at one point or another, and especially when you're discussing subjective fields like politics, art, culture, and so on.  I'm not so sure that there is misuse of it, insofar as like most political beliefs, is is a continuum, not a binary thing.  When you're talking about complex ideologies or beliefs, you're going to get RINOs, Cafeteria Catholics, and Libertarians who agree or disagree to an extent.

Now, what "big government" means is more susceptible to precision, sure. Myself, I see that as when government usurps a decision that is best made -- or even sometimes most morally made -- by the private individual.  Now, that excludes stuff like health, safety, and traffic laws, by my lights, so I end up being one of those libertarians who annoy the fuck out of you.  I'm sorry about that, 'cause you're a cool guy and all, but I can't help it.
<insert witty aphorism here>

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2014, 06:08:33 PM »
Like Bigfoot, real libertarians are frequently reported but seldom seen.
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2014, 07:17:42 PM »
Quote from: "Minimalist"
Like Bigfoot, real libertarians are frequently reported but seldom seen.
Like a real Scotsman?

Offline Thumpalumpacus

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2014, 04:32:35 PM »
Quote from: "Minimalist"
Like Bigfoot, real libertarians are frequently reported but seldom seen.

Define your terms?
<insert witty aphorism here>

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2014, 04:55:32 PM »
They usually turn out to be run-of-the-mill republicans who think pot should be legal.
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2014, 07:18:06 PM »
Quote from: "Minimalist"
They usually turn out to be run-of-the-mill republicans who think pot should be legal.
And gay marriage.
And abortion.
And prostitution
And gambling
And other drugs as well

Also against these things that Republicans are for:
War (and that's huge, believe me)
No knock warrants
Civil asset forfeiture
Business subsidies
Business bailouts
Protective tariffs
And War.

etc.

Anyone who thinks it can be reduced to "Republican who likes drugs" is as simplistic as someone who thinks it can be reduced to "Democrat that likes making money."
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.

No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Offline zarus tathra

Re: A letter to Libertarians.
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2014, 10:08:20 PM »
Well they basically differ from the Democrats only on the point of taxes and welfare, more or less. Also, the Democrats aren't really anti-war. No mainstream political party in any country really is.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.