The Subjection of Women

[xodot]

I have been studying the above noted text by John Stuart Mill penned in 1869 and find myself in need of a wider opinion on one aspect. I hope to tap into some of your current ideas and experiences to see how diverse our observations are.

Mill purports that women have historically been schooled to believe their role is to behave in a way that will please a man. A pleasing appearance, selfless service to the man, giving control of assets and decisions to the man (and more) is how social norms and experience had taught women to behave to be attractive to a man in the 19th century. This teaching also affected the man who expected his brutish behaviour or just unkindness was sanctioned in the home and society and law in the pursuit of his selfish will.
Mill was a strong supporter of reform for equal legal rights for women at a time such talk was unpopular.

My question is: "After almost a century of legal equality and 50 years of social freedom, are women now free of subjection to men when the sexes interact socially?"

Thanks for your opinions.
xo.

[Shiranu]

My question is: "After almost a century of legal equality and 50 years of social freedom, are women now free of subjection to men when the sexes interact socially?"

I would not say they have reached that point, no. Just like men have certain social roles forced on them, this is one that is forced on women still. That said, I don't think it's nearly as bad as it use to be. Women CAN do what ever they want... but they will still get funny looks. But that is an improvement over being sent to special schools where they are abused into being more "woman-ly".

[Jason78]

My question is: "After almost a century of legal equality and 50 years of social freedom, are women now free of subjection to men when the sexes interact socially?"

Surely you mean "After almost a century of legal equality and 50 years of social freedom, are women now free of subjugation by men when the sexes interact socially?"

[Plu]

Is this question focussing on a specific culture or area? Because the answer varies heavily based on those two parameters. (It's completely false for many areas of the world even, where women simply don't have those rights at all)

[AllPurposeAtheist]

This sounds like the "post racial world" fallacies popularized after Obama was elected.  :-k

[xodot]

My question is: "After almost a century of legal equality and 50 years of social freedom, are women now free of subjection to men when the sexes interact socially?"

Surely you mean "After almost a century of legal equality and 50 years of social freedom, are women now free of subjugation by men when the sexes interact socially?"

If the question is "by men" instead of "to men" it would imply that men are responsible for any subjection that may exist. So to avoid that rabbit hole, I first want to  know if, in your opinion, female subjection to males exists when the two sexes interact socially.

(We can talk about where that force to subject women comes from later if you want   Let us first establish if it exists)

[Jason78]

The preposition is not the issue.  It's the verb I'm having trouble with.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Do..your. ..makeup ...? Ge..wha..are you...nahhh.. =D>
Seriously,  I'm a dad of 2, 2 step daughters and several granddaughters. I feel ill when people try to sexualize little girls. Man, let them grow up and enjoy their childhoods. What a grown woman decides to do is her decision.
Men and boys face our own sexualization issues, but it varies.
I will say at least western women have more choices in clothing, dresses, pants, frilly or plain, etc. Not to many of us guys are going to run around in pretty lacy panties and a cotton summer dress.

Well I might, but don't tell anyone.  :-$

[stromboli]

The answer to your question is no.

[Insult to Rocks]

I have been studying the above noted text by John Stuart Mill penned in 1869 and find myself in need of a wider opinion on one aspect. I hope to tap into some of your current ideas and experiences to see how diverse our observations are.

Mill purports that women have historically been schooled to believe their role is to behave in a way that will please a man. A pleasing appearance, selfless service to the man, giving control of assets and decisions to the man (and more) is how social norms and experience had taught women to behave to be attractive to a man in the 19th century. This teaching also affected the man who expected his brutish behaviour or just unkindness was sanctioned in the home and society and law in the pursuit of his selfish will.
Mill was a strong supporter of reform for equal legal rights for women at a time such talk was unpopular.

My question is: "After almost a century of legal equality and 50 years of social freedom, are women now free of subjection to men when the sexes interact socially?"

Thanks for your opinions.
xo.

The short answer is no, they are not.
The long answer is that the gender roles and offensive societal norms have been spread out more evenly in some ways, which is why most modern feminists fight against norms in general rather than just women's rights.

[_Xenu_]

When I was in college, I had to take a course about the women's movement and gender equality. One day, the instructor divided us into groups of four, and I found myself the only guy in my group. Even there, I was the de facto leader without even seeking it, they just assumed I was the leader from the first interaction. The irony was not lost on me.

[xodot]

I have been studying the above noted text by John Stuart Mill penned in 1869 and find myself in need of a wider opinion on one aspect. I hope to tap into some of your current ideas and experiences to see how diverse our observations are.

Mill purports that women have historically been schooled to believe their role is to behave in a way that will please a man. A pleasing appearance, selfless service to the man, giving control of assets and decisions to the man (and more) is how social norms and experience had taught women to behave to be attractive to a man in the 19th century. This teaching also affected the man who expected his brutish behaviour or just unkindness was sanctioned in the home and society and law in the pursuit of his selfish will.
Mill was a strong supporter of reform for equal legal rights for women at a time such talk was unpopular.

My question is: "After almost a century of legal equality and 50 years of social freedom, are women now free of subjection to men when the sexes interact socially?"

Thanks for your opinions.
xo.

The short answer is no, they are not.
The long answer is that the gender roles and offensive societal norms have been spread out more evenly in some ways, which is why most modern feminists fight against norms in general rather than just women's rights.

Interesting observation.
 the gender roles and offensive societal norms have been spread out more evenly ....what do you see that shows this? what actions/behaviour/roles are occurring between men and women that are still subjecting women to men?
Respectfully,
xo.

[stromboli]

strom, I think you have some sort of an effect on me.

And I'm smart enough to know better than pursuing that line of thought.

[xodot]

Is this question focussing on a specific culture or area? Because the answer varies heavily based on those two parameters. (It's completely false for many areas of the world even, where women simply don't have those rights at all)

I completely agree with you that the responses will vary globally - that is why I asked on this forum what you see for yourself in your own day to day observations/experiences when women and men interact socially.

I am hoping some will share an observation that will support their opinion.

Thanks for letting clear this up,
Regards,
xo.

[xodot]

The preposition is not the issue.  It's the verb I'm having trouble with.

Subjection and Subjugation are nouns and they both refer to the control or domination of someone or thing. What am I missing?
 
xo.