Author Topic: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Ownership  (Read 6060 times)

Offline AllPurposeAtheist (OP)

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2014, 12:55:01 AM »
Just read your bible. Everything you need to know is right in it.  [-X
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Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2014, 01:18:55 AM »
Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"
Its uncentralized nature provokes people to ignorantly criticize its reliability whenever it is a source of facts that others dislike.

Don't you know, accuracy can only come from the top down?
When it comes to using Wikipedia I tend to look at their citations and references as well. Overall I've found that articles, especially the more popular ones, have numerous citations from reputable sources.
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!

Offline frosty

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2014, 02:02:59 PM »
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Just read your bible. Everything you need to know is right in it.  [-X

What? Who are you talking to? I don't think Jason takes the bible as truth, I'm sure he's an Atheist....

Offline AllPurposeAtheist (OP)

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2014, 02:21:58 PM »
Quote from: "frosty"
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Just read your bible. Everything you need to know is right in it.  [-X

What? Who are you talking to? I don't think Jason takes the bible as truth, I'm sure he's an Atheist....
In the immortal words of Beauregard Claghorn,

it's a joke son.  [-X
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2014, 01:02:50 AM »
Quote from: "mykcob4"
Hunting-unnecessary and more costly than just buying food.
This is where I say maybe because of how you are and how you know how to live, but that ain't me.

Last fall for less than 50 bucks I filled a medium sized freezer with deer meat. Why because it is healthy for you to eat it as it has zero cholesterol. Just because you can not do this go buy your meat, but it is an actual essential part of my life and diet. I also go pheasant and grouse hunting, not big on ducks. I do turkey hunt 2x a year again for he food it provides and I know that I am filling my freezer with food that I processed not some meat locker. I also do other small game hunting and wish I could hunt more than I do year round as it does give me a supply of food cheaper than buying some cholesterol filled ground chuck from old retired milker cow from wal-mart. I also fish quite a bit for my food.

i guess you just don't get it and think because america allows people to own guns that they are all city dwellers that don't need them. You know what if you don't want to own a gun then fucking don't. But don't fucking say shit like this when you are obvious just regurgitating some propaganda. Fuck That! :evil:

PS: I buy my pork when the pig is alive and after I shoot the pig between the eyes I quickly cut the throat before it dies so it bleeds out leaving the pork very white. How do you buy your pork, from hormel? Maybe learn some actual life skill and then post crap like this.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 01:19:23 AM by barbarian »

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2014, 01:13:42 AM »
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
I live twenty miles from the nearest police station, which at 3 AM has one cop on duty covering how many miles? I had a prowler out on the property last week, and was happy that a loud voice was all it took ... this time.

I want  a shotgun, because when shit happens, I don't want it to rain on me.

I should have the right to defend myself and my property if the government cannot or will not do so.  And truth be told, I'll defend myself anyway and take my chances in court. 'Tis better to ask forgiveness than permission, etc etc.

Few years back I shot a grey wolf in my back yard by the chicken coop, then hung the tail next to it. For some reason it spooks them not to come back, not sure why it could be the smell. I also shoot the coyotes going out with a posse during early winter nights.

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2014, 07:13:42 PM »
Quote from: "barbarian"
Quote from: "mykcob4"
Hunting-unnecessary and more costly than just buying food.
This is where I say maybe because of how you are and how you know how to live, but that ain't me.

Last fall for less than 50 bucks I filled a medium sized freezer with deer meat. Why because it is healthy for you to eat it as it has zero cholesterol. Just because you can not do this go buy your meat, but it is an actual essential part of my life and diet. I also go pheasant and grouse hunting, not big on ducks. I do turkey hunt 2x a year again for he food it provides and I know that I am filling my freezer with food that I processed not some meat locker. I also do other small game hunting and wish I could hunt more than I do year round as it does give me a supply of food cheaper than buying some cholesterol filled ground chuck from old retired milker cow from wal-mart. I also fish quite a bit for my food.

i guess you just don't get it and think because america allows people to own guns that they are all city dwellers that don't need them. You know what if you don't want to own a gun then fucking don't. But don't fucking say shit like this when you are obvious just regurgitating some propaganda. Fuck That! :evil:

PS: I buy my pork when the pig is alive and after I shoot the pig between the eyes I quickly cut the throat before it dies so it bleeds out leaving the pork very white. How do you buy your pork, from hormel? Maybe learn some actual life skill and then post crap like this.
Venison does not have zero cholesterol, just so you know. I don't have a problem with people in the sticks having long guns. I don't have a problem with subsistence hunting. I do have a problem with allowing any jerk off being able to walk into Walmart and being able to walk out with a gun. I do have a problem with people who carry pistols because they are chicken shit cowards, and having a gun makes them feel all warm and fuzzy. I do have a problem with 30 and 40 round magazines. I don't have any guns in my house, as I have 3 children. I'm not afraid of guns; I am a veteran, and well trained in their use. They are not needed by the vast majority of the civilian population, and if you think you need one for protection from your tyrannical government, you REALLY should have a good psych eval.
???  ??

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2014, 02:10:53 AM »
Quote from: "Jmpty"
Quote from: "barbarian"
Quote from: "mykcob4"
Hunting-unnecessary and more costly than just buying food.
This is where I say maybe because of how you are and how you know how to live, but that ain't me.

Last fall for less than 50 bucks I filled a medium sized freezer with deer meat. Why because it is healthy for you to eat it as it has zero cholesterol. Just because you can not do this go buy your meat, but it is an actual essential part of my life and diet. I also go pheasant and grouse hunting, not big on ducks. I do turkey hunt 2x a year again for he food it provides and I know that I am filling my freezer with food that I processed not some meat locker. I also do other small game hunting and wish I could hunt more than I do year round as it does give me a supply of food cheaper than buying some cholesterol filled ground chuck from old retired milker cow from wal-mart. I also fish quite a bit for my food.

i guess you just don't get it and think because america allows people to own guns that they are all city dwellers that don't need them. You know what if you don't want to own a gun then fucking don't. But don't fucking say shit like this when you are obvious just regurgitating some propaganda. Fuck That! :evil:

PS: I buy my pork when the pig is alive and after I shoot the pig between the eyes I quickly cut the throat before it dies so it bleeds out leaving the pork very white. How do you buy your pork, from hormel? Maybe learn some actual life skill and then post crap like this.
Venison does not have zero cholesterol, just so you know. I don't have a problem with people in the sticks having long guns. I don't have a problem with subsistence hunting. I do have a problem with allowing any jerk off being able to walk into Walmart and being able to walk out with a gun. I do have a problem with people who carry pistols because they are chicken shit cowards, and having a gun makes them feel all warm and fuzzy. I do have a problem with 30 and 40 round magazines. I don't have any guns in my house, as I have 3 children. I'm not afraid of guns; I am a veteran, and well trained in their use. They are not needed by the vast majority of the civilian population, and if you think you need one for protection from your tyrannical government, you REALLY should have a good psych eval.

Venison still has low cholesterol , it is said that it is 1/3 less than beef but it is still the better choice for diet. I will give you that as a correction. I also prefer the taste of venison over beef.

If it makes you feel better not to have guns in your house because of your kids then keep doing what you are doing. There is still only a small population of that are using guns in all these shootings that you hear of. I think time spent creating laws on people killing and seriously hurting people with cars while using cell phones would be a better argument on having strict laws on this. As you said you have 3 kids that you strap in your car and more likely to be a victim a distracted driver than being a victim of gun violence. To make the argument of strict gun laws over kooks that they need them from a tyranny government you again just tapped in what is a small part of the population that uses them for many other things such as self protection and hunting. You want to disarm America over a very small population group sounds paranoid as people that want them for militia use of over throwing the government. Also, why do you want to take my pistol away also. That just sounds crazy to me also.

I guess I don't understand why people thump the drum over strict gun laws then stay mute on the subject of something that you actually have a greater risk of being a victim from.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 02:24:10 AM by barbarian »

Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2014, 02:20:45 AM »
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Just read your bible. Everything you need to know is right in it.  [-X
God MADE guns! It's in there. You can't prove it isn't!

I'm with APA, It's so annoying especially in NJ where eveyone in this suburban yuppie area pretends to be a redneck. They don't hunt for their food. Most people haven't even seen a gun in person let alone held one even at a shooting range. The only person I know that owns one is my friend from highschool, but he is a policeman. But EVERYONE complains about how gun control is too strict.

I really like the PSA they did either last year or 2 years ago that makes a good point of why gun control is much different than the 17/1800s:

[youtube:2i5ivifw][/youtube:2i5ivifw]
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2014, 02:29:38 AM »
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Just read your bible. Everything you need to know is right in it.  [-X
God MADE guns! It's in there. You can't prove it isn't!

I'm with APA, It's so annoying especially in NJ where eveyone in this suburban yuppie area pretends to be a redneck. They don't hunt for their food. Most people haven't even seen a gun in person let alone held one even at a shooting range. The only person I know that owns one is my friend from highschool, but he is a policeman. But EVERYONE complains about how gun control is too strict.

I really like the PSA they did either last year or 2 years ago that makes a good point of why gun control is much different than the 17/1800s:

[youtube:3t3t328h][/youtube:3t3t328h]

Not really sure what you are referring to but if you could post a link to the point that you are making from an actual website vs a youtube video it would be appreciated. I don't use youtube.

Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2014, 02:59:38 AM »
Quote from: "barbarian"
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Just read your bible. Everything you need to know is right in it.  [-X
God MADE guns! It's in there. You can't prove it isn't!

I'm with APA, It's so annoying especially in NJ where eveyone in this suburban yuppie area pretends to be a redneck. They don't hunt for their food. Most people haven't even seen a gun in person let alone held one even at a shooting range. The only person I know that owns one is my friend from highschool, but he is a policeman. But EVERYONE complains about how gun control is too strict.

I really like the PSA they did either last year or 2 years ago that makes a good point of why gun control is much different than the 17/1800s:

[youtube:f75ghjyb][/youtube:f75ghjyb]

Not really sure what you are referring to but if you could post a link to the point that you are making from an actual website vs a youtube video it would be appreciated. I don't use youtube.
Oh yeah. sorry about that. I'll just explain the clip to you if that's alright.

It was a public service TV ad a little while back where a guy walks in to an office. It implies that he is a depressed employee that either worked there or got fired or something... But you can see that he is very depressed just by looking at his face.

he walks in to the back of the office disregarding people asking him what he's doing with a flint-lock musket rifle and fires at what seems to be his boss. It misses and no one gets shot  or hurt despite being only about 20' away because the rifles of the civil war were totally inaccurate. Everyone screams and runs out before he can even load more gunpowder and another musket ball in the rifle.

The point of the video was that everyone talks about how we need gun laws loosened up, but not many people understands that guns are extremely compact now and are also much more accurate and can hold many more rounds of ammo.
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2014, 05:54:46 AM »
Quote from: "mykcob4"
I have come across this many times in my life. I contend that no one needs a gun or should actually have a gun. I face opposition from gun people

I say furthermore that there is no reason or justification to own or have a gun, and "because I want one" isn't good enough.

The arguments FOR gun ownership have all been shot down by every study that has ever addressed this issue.
Hunting-unnecessary and more costly than just buying food.
Protection-a nonstarter as it has been proven that having a gun is more likely to get the owner shot that if they didn't have one in the first place.

Guns and gun ownership is just the manifestation of fanciful thinking. It is pseudo-machoism to the max. People watch movies and think "Hey I want to be that guy, he's cool."

What about those like my family who own a large 600 acre primary producing property, do you think we dont need a gun to take care of feral pest problems?

Thanks to the anti gun bigots the best gun i can have is a 6 shot 243 bolt action, i had a ruger 10/22 which was perfect for picking off smaller feral animals yet had to hand it in because semi autos are banned here.

What do you suggest people use to take care of problems like this, why do fuckwits like you want to take our best tools away?
http://http://www.sportingshootermag.com.au/news/300-pigs-and-not-one-gun

Before we had strict gun laws imposed on us drive by shootings were unheard of in Australia, does the increase in drive by shootings from none to becoming common show the gun laws work, do you think the people doing these drive by shootings are licensed gun owners with registered weapons?
http://https://www.google.com.au/#q=drive+by+shooting+sydney

Just look at all those people who surrender when a gun is pointed at them, if it is considered armed robbery even if a criminal does not fire their weapon then statistics of defensive gun use without firing a shot should also be considered and they are numerous.
My mother had 2 people surrender inside her tractor shed when she pointed a unloaded bolt action 22 at them so i dont buy your crap on guns not helping for protection, do you think people will surrender when they see a red dot from a laser pointer aimed at their balls?

The homicide rate in Australia is 0.86 per 100,000, in New Zealand which allows semi auto rifles and suppressors with fairly liberal gun laws the homicide rate is 0.9 per 100,000, there is no evidence strict gun laws reduce homicide rates.

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2014, 05:56:09 AM »
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"
Oh yeah. sorry about that. I'll just explain the clip to you if that's alright.

It was a public service TV ad a little while back where a guy walks in to an office. It implies that he is a depressed employee that either worked there or got fired or something... But you can see that he is very depressed just by looking at his face.

he walks in to the back of the office disregarding people asking him what he's doing with a flint-lock musket rifle and fires at what seems to be his boss. It misses and no one gets shot  or hurt despite being only about 20' away because the rifles of the civil war were totally inaccurate. Everyone screams and runs out before he can even load more gunpowder and another musket ball in the rifle.

The point of the video was that everyone talks about how we need gun laws loosened up, but not many people understands that guns are extremely compact now and are also much more accurate and can hold many more rounds of ammo.

My main argument when it comes down to gun control is that I don't believe that they actual need to be tightened or loosened. I go fishing with this guy from the area I am from that owns a gun and is a gunsmith I also know a couple other gunsmiths in the area. Most people when they start up the conversation about gun control is that they start in with extreme view from either the left or right depending what they believe. If anyone wants to really address gun control in America I don't think that this is where they should start the debate. All of a sudden you start to see that over kill on real solutions. I just constantly hear regurgitated arguments that essentially go no where. When I  have conversations out fishing with my friend he has some real common sense approaches to correct the actual problem that we face in today's world.

When you take the gun show loop hole for example, this is an area that is being exploited at serious levels and it could be easily addressed that you buy a gun at the expos then get a background check just as you would if you bought one from a reputable dealer and it wouldn't be that difficult to do. The thing is that there is usually always people there that could do the background checks fairly easy for the other people at no cost or very minimal. He goes to gun shows all the time and would never sell a gun to anyone without making sure that they have cleared a background check because those numbers on those guns will go directly back to him if the gun was used in a crime.

As far as private sales it is harder to curtail them types of purchases but I do not think that a law needs to change on that one either. See this isn't happening in a place like the gun show example where there is hundreds of gun sales taking place in one location. Not to mention the guys that are sitting there that have dozens of guns up for sale.

As far as banning assault riffle isn't really a solution either due to tat most of that all has to do with the cosmetic look of the gun. So by changing the shape of gun as far as appearance doesn't really accomplish much either. At the same time you start thinking do you really need a clip that holds 30 and sometimes more rounds than that in these guns. This should be looked at closer to some type of law to tighten this area, but again it needs to be common sense just because they are banned doesn't mean that the disturbed would not be able to still get them, making it harder for legitimate gun owners isn't the solution. There is so many large clips out there already they still would be pretty easy to obtain even if a law was enacted prohibiting them. I really can't say I have a good answer for this one.

I also hear when it comes to the gun control debate that there should be an exemption for law enforcement. Well, yeas and no. I don't mind to see say your police, sheriff, etc dept. to have and in that light maybe to a certain extent they can obtain some for there dept. yet they should be locked away unless they are an absolute in needing them not of every trunk if the squad cars. Also that the law enforcement officer himself may not own anything over and above what a common citizen can own. In other words, as of right now a cop can go buy himself a fully automated weapon for his personal collection. I don't think anyone needs that for their personal collection, that is totally over the top insanity. Again police department owning them I can see, the the the employee, ahhhh no. That would be like sending all our soldiers home with their m4 that is still functionable to being fully  automated.

There is many things that could be done in enforcing laws already on the books also. Also carrying a pistol isn't always a bad thing and as common folk they should be able to strap there pistol on their side as they go out hunting or conceal one because they need to drive through bad areas of a city. These generally are not the people you need to worry about anyway. Again a common sense approach to figure out the disturbed from obtaining guns, well if you want to hear some reality of changing that I can shed some light on it at another time, but I will say there is some easy solutions to that without impeding on constitutional rights.

See this is where I my self can get bent out of shape on the debates going on, this how we want to define or redefine what exactly is the constitution saying about firearms. We should never go to extreme to fast when changing interpretation of the constitution and the rights within. As a pointed out earlier that over the top extreme views get thrown out from both sides so nothing gets done in an intellectual matter that makes sense and actually addresses problems. Also like as I stated in a previous post about distracted and drunk drivers in that you have a greater chance of being affected by them then you stand the chance of being affected by gun violence. What national debate is going on over that and that doesn't even have to do with your constitutional rights. It more has to do with people driven around in a something that is over a ton of metal and can have a real life changing impact on you. You don't see that in the news enough because they don't cover all the car accidents that happen everyday across the nation and it actually, in my opinion is the bigger issue.

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2014, 10:09:46 AM »
I love it when people bring up cars as a defense of gun ownership. You need a license to drive a car, which you need to pass a test to obtain. The car itself needs a license, Which has to be renewed every year. You also need insurance to drive a car. Shouldn't gun ownership have to meet at least these standards?
???  ??

Offline AllPurposeAtheist (OP)

Re: Why The American Revolution Is Not A Model For Gun Owner
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2014, 11:44:45 AM »
I'm not anti gun, far from it, but living in cities most of my life every single day without fail the local news reports on murders occuring, usually multiple murders, many involving kids and innocent bystanders.  If you think you HAVE to hunt to eat in the city you're clearly delusional.
The purpose of the article wasn't over whether you like deer meat or it's health benefits,  it's about the batshit crazy notion that you're going to 'defend' your family from big, bad gubnit when clearly big bad gubnit isn't out rounding up people for execution and overthrow of our  government is clearly illegal. The fact that every city has an armed police force and we have well armed, regulated military forces should tell any sane person the bullshit claims are just that, an excuse to sell weaponry where it's not needed and a clear threat to the public peace and well being and health.
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