Author Topic: A cure for homosexuality  (Read 7470 times)

Online GSOgymrat

A cure for homosexuality
« on: December 28, 2013, 02:46:51 PM »
Imagine scientists discover that most homosexual orientation is the result of a fetus being exposed to specific hormones in the womb and a technique is developed to block those hormones, essentially creating a vaccine to prevent homosexuality. Would it be ethical to offer this vaccine to expectant mothers? Would it be ethical to make such vaccinations mandatory?
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline mykcob4

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2013, 02:50:33 PM »
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"
Imagine scientists discover that most homosexual orientation is the result of a fetus being exposed to specific hormones in the womb and a technique is developed to block those hormones, essentially creating a vaccine to prevent homosexuality. Would it be ethical to offer this vaccine to expectant mothers? Would it be ethical to make such vaccinations mandatory?
Nope, not at all. Nature has seen fit to provide homosexuals and who are we to defy nature. The best thing to do is not discriminate people just because they are gay.

Offline Solitary

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2013, 02:55:43 PM »
It would be unethical to even make a vaccine that supports bigotry much less make it mandatory. Homo sexuality is not a disease or mental illness, but bigotry is a mental illness. Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Offline SilentFutility

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2013, 03:00:20 PM »
While hypothetical, this is an interesting question.

I suspect that fundamentally the ethics of this question boil down to whether or not it is ethical to choose anything about your unborn baby, which may potentially be possible in the future.

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2013, 04:35:56 PM »
Quote from: "SilentFutility"
While hypothetical, this is an interesting question.

I suspect that fundamentally the ethics of this question boil down to whether or not it is ethical to choose anything about your unborn baby, which may potentially be possible in the future.



Interesting hypothetical for sure.  If as mykcob4 says, don't interfere because nature made them that way, would it follow that we shouldn't attempt to change any physical characteristics in the womb?  Addressing genetic diseases would be (I would think) fairly easy to think about but what about say Down's syndrome?  Then issues like hair color, (future)  baldness, straight teeth, and many other traits.  If a mother can decide her baby should be a tall male with brown hair, how do we stipulate she can't decide on sexual orientation?

It seems it might come down to a debate on which characteristics are good, neutral, or bad.  In vitro genetic engineering is coming.  No telling if homosexuality will be something that can be altered but what can and can't-should and shouldn't be altered is certainly something that will have to be hashed out.

Offline GrinningYMIR

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2013, 04:41:10 PM »
Genetic modification in the womb has been thought about or years, and it will always have controversy, whether from bible thumpers or naturalists.

There are many benefits to it if it can be implemented correctly, however this could be countered by someone claiming that it would be the first step in a new supremacist regime, as new generations would be "perfect"

It reminds me of a book called post mortal (I think) where they literally found a cure for shining, no or aged so they lived forever, in theory. In the books storyline this led to mass genocide as the poor and other "undesirables" were wiped out systematically.

Could humanity handle defeating one of its permanent problems?
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2013, 05:47:21 PM »
I would be concerned with the side effects, which may include extraneous nipples, erections lasting more than three hours, suicidal thought or actions,  sudden drop in blood pressure, anal bleeding (rather ironic), rejection of reason, and urgent need to consume male bovine feces.
Freedom is Free.  It\'s included in Democracy.  Democracy is Hard.  It involves coexisting with people who think that sayings like "Freedom is not Free" actually makes some kind of sense.

Offline SilentFutility

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2013, 06:45:14 PM »
Quote from: "billhilly"
Quote from: "SilentFutility"
While hypothetical, this is an interesting question.

I suspect that fundamentally the ethics of this question boil down to whether or not it is ethical to choose anything about your unborn baby, which may potentially be possible in the future.



Interesting hypothetical for sure.  If as mykcob4 says, don't interfere because nature made them that way, would it follow that we shouldn't attempt to change any physical characteristics in the womb?  Addressing genetic diseases would be (I would think) fairly easy to think about but what about say Down's syndrome?  Then issues like hair color, (future)  baldness, straight teeth, and many other traits.  If a mother can decide her baby should be a tall male with brown hair, how do we stipulate she can't decide on sexual orientation?

It seems it might come down to a debate on which characteristics are good, neutral, or bad.  In vitro genetic engineering is coming.  No telling if homosexuality will be something that can be altered but what can and can't-should and shouldn't be altered is certainly something that will have to be hashed out.

That's what I was trying to get at but you discussed it in far better detail.
To what extent is interfering with the baby's characteristics acceptable or allowable? Decide what your view is on that before arriving at a conclusion for the question in the OP.

I would argue that making the vaccination mandatory is unethical, as I believe that laws should allow for as much personal freedom as possible and only intervene to prevent harm to others & for the greater good. As homosexuality harms nobody and stopping it from existing entirely (arguably impossible as sexuality is not necessarily black & white) wouldn't really serve any kind of purpose, it is unethical to force such a vaccination on people purely on the basis that forcibly making anything mandatory without a good reason to is unethical.

Offline aitm

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2013, 07:38:20 PM »
IF indeed, a "vaccine" is available and the technology as well to determine if a child could be in the "throes" of the dreaded infection, it is rather irrelevant if it should be used, it will be. No parent wants a child who is to be born with a "stigma" attached. C'mon.

Homosexuality is a natural occurring percentile of not just humanity but for many animals stemming back to the days a asexuality. But lets be real, if you can change things to your liking, or to enhance the childs life? Oy yeah. We all know that better looking people get better opportunities based on looks alone, so if you could change that many would.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2013, 09:01:58 PM »
Better looking, smarter people tend to do better financially but I've read that homosexuals do too (don't ask me for a cite, can't remember where I read it).  If that's true, we'd be left with the reproductive issue (although plenty of homosexuals reproduce) so that leaves us with the ick factor and the gawd don't like it deal.  

I might opt to insure smart, nice looking kids who are free of genetic diseases but I don't think sexual orientation would be much of a concern.  Maybe tell the doctor you'd like that part to be a surprise like some do now with gender?


Edit- Oh yeah, if there was an option to have them be able to shoot lasers out of their eyes, I might go for that too.

Offline Mermaid

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2013, 10:04:43 PM »
Quote from: "SilentFutility"
While hypothetical, this is an interesting question.

I suspect that fundamentally the ethics of this question boil down to whether or not it is ethical to choose anything about your unborn baby, which may potentially be possible in the future.
I agree. A very interesting hypothetical question. I also agree with your assessment. In the case of homosexuality, no, I do not think it's ethical.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Offline Shiranu

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2013, 10:23:04 PM »
The world is over-populated as it is. Homosexuals generally do not have children themselves (I suppose some lesbians probably do get [inseminated?] to have their own child, or a gay guy could donate his sperm to have someone else carry his child) so that cuts down on the population as well as they adopt kids who would have other wise shitty lives.

Gays are a blessing to the world, so I see no reason to keep them from being born.
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

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Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2013, 10:42:22 PM »
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"
Imagine scientists discover that most homosexual orientation is the result of a fetus being exposed to specific hormones in the womb and a technique is developed to block those hormones, essentially creating a vaccine to prevent homosexuality. Would it be ethical to offer this vaccine to expectant mothers? Would it be ethical to make such vaccinations mandatory?

Which hormones are these?  Do they affect other development factors?  Could the same effect be achieved with lasers?  You might as well ask if it's ethical to reprogram someones brain to make them law abiding.

And what about the damned bisexuals?  Sexual orientation isn't either homosexual or heterosexual.  Bisexuality and asexuality are orientations too.  Yet nothing seems to rile people like the thought of two men doing it.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Online GSOgymrat

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2013, 12:01:49 AM »
Quote from: "Jason78"
Which hormones are these?  Do they affect other development factors?  Could the same effect be achieved with lasers?  You might as well ask if it's ethical to reprogram someones brain to make them law abiding.

And what about the damned bisexuals?  Sexual orientation isn't either homosexual or heterosexual.  Bisexuality and asexuality are orientations too.  Yet nothing seems to rile people like the thought of two men doing it.
[/quote]

I chose homosexuality for this hypothetical thought experiment precisely because human sexuality is varied and emotionally charged. Some people believe homosexuality is an illness or a sin and some believe it is natural part of a spectrum of human sexual expression. The question becomes who decides what human attributes are desirable or undesirable and what are the consequences of altering people before they are even born. Should we try to make left handed people right handed so they conform? When is a man's height too short and if we can make all males at least 6 feet tall should we? If there were no more gay men and lesbians born would humanity lose something? How about if there were no more black people born?

My thought is that the difference between vaccinating against homosexuality and vaccinating against disease, e.g. polio, is that characteristics such as homosexuality, baldness, height, left-handedness, red hair, introversion or skin color do not inherently cause suffering to the individuals with those characteristics. If homosexuals suffer it is due to social disapproval and nothing intrinsic in their sexual orientation. When science is used to breed fashionable characteristics in humans as opposed to correcting conditions that cause suffering the results can be problematic.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 12:42:56 AM by GSOgymrat »
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: A cure for homosexuality
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2013, 12:18:27 AM »
There is no problem with homosexuality, save that some people don't like them. Some people don't like sexy little mikos either, but that's hardly a reason to outlaw them.
Warning: Don't Tease The Miko!
(she bites!)
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