News:

Welcome to our site!

Main Menu

Is wicca a fake religion

Started by Ace101, March 29, 2015, 03:39:51 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

doorknob

UM I've known a few wiccans. They were raised that way and it wasn't just fun for them. They believed as much as any christian.

The major difference how ever is that they were way more fun to hang out with then stuffy Christians.

stromboli

Quote from: doorknob on March 29, 2015, 11:23:56 PM
UM I've known a few wiccans. They were raised that way and it wasn't just fun for them. They believed as much as any christian.

The major difference how ever is that they were way more fun to hang out with then stuffy Christians.

Sabrina is a Wiccan but no longer posts on here. I think I pissed her off or something. But I have great respect for her. And also Jason Harvestdancer, who has been on here longer than I have by a few years. We have disagreed on stuff, but I'd never disrespect his intelligence. I personally don't have a problem with Wicca because it involves a lot of natural healing, and as a person who spends as much time in nature as possible, I respect people who respect nature. I grew up with people who were much into natural healing and living with nature, so it has meaning for me.

trdsf

Quote from: doorknob on March 29, 2015, 11:23:56 PM
UM I've known a few wiccans. They were raised that way and it wasn't just fun for them. They believed as much as any christian.

The major difference how ever is that they were way more fun to hang out with then stuffy Christians.

As a general rule, Wiccans don't feel obliged to shove their beliefs down your throat.  The only time I ever met a Wiccan who was in the same mental space as your typical fundie of any other stripe was a hardcore Dianic who told me that I was a second class human being because I'm male.

That's the real danger of fundamentalism, regardless of which belief structure it's embedded in -- it allows, even encourages one to think they're better than a fellow human being.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Ace101

Quote from: trdsf on March 29, 2015, 10:53:42 PM
It seemed real enough when I was a practicing Wiccan.  Just like Catholicism seemed real enough when I was a practicing Catholic.  Turns out they both have equal footing in reality: not much.
Just curious though - what evidence convinced you that it was true?

I mean I can see why a naive person might fall for "evidence" about Jesus' resurrection, and stuff like that - but what 'evidence' is out there that would convince someone that a pagan god like Diana is real, when that's closer to believing in Santa?

Solitary

This is funny to me because my androgynous girl friend and her girlfriend said the same thing to me. I didn't disagree because my girlfriend gave me a black eye boxing, and she was only 5'5" and I was 5' 10" and she was trained by Mike Tyson. I let her win though.  :liar: :pirate: :kidra: :lipsrsealed:
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

PickelledEggs

Quote from: stromboli on March 29, 2015, 11:32:34 PM
Sabrina is a Wiccan but no longer posts on here. I think I pissed her off or something. But I have great respect for her. And also Jason Harvestdancer, who has been on here longer than I have by a few years. We have disagreed on stuff, but I'd never disrespect his intelligence. I personally don't have a problem with Wicca because it involves a lot of natural healing, and as a person who spends as much time in nature as possible, I respect people who respect nature. I grew up with people who were much into natural healing and living with nature, so it has meaning for me.
I miss Sabrina.... :(

Hydra009

#36
Quote from: Ace101 on March 29, 2015, 10:06:49 PMBasically how many people seriously believe its real, versus how many people do it 'just for fun'
It's impossible to tell.  Honestly, I have a hard time believing that Christians and Muslims seriously believe what they say they do.  But they seem to take it seriously.  As do pagans and Wiccans.  Without the benefit of mind-reading, it's impossible to know for sure.

Like Shiranu pointed out, the pre-Christian European religions are older and more elemental.  No opulent cathedrals.  No priestly overlords.  Less of a focus on dogma and holy book and sin and torture - eternal or otherwise - and more on common traditions and the natural world.  It actually has a huge selling point in that it lacks a lot of the really nasty stuff that people tend to loathe about organized religion - greed, bigotry, zealotry, violence, etc.  So yeah, I can definitely see why someone would make the switch without necessarily being a rebellious teen (lol!)

Obviously, I don't agree with their beliefs.  Theism of any sort is a deal-breaker with me and it's hard to look at belief in magic as anything other than a lamentably long-lived superstition.

trdsf

Quote from: Ace101 on March 30, 2015, 12:03:41 AM
Just curious though - what evidence convinced you that it was true?

I mean I can see why a naive person might fall for "evidence" about Jesus' resurrection, and stuff like that - but what 'evidence' is out there that would convince someone that a pagan god like Diana is real, when that's closer to believing in Santa?

Why is believing in Diana (or any of the other Pagan gods) closer to believing in Santa than believing in any other god?  They're all exactly the same distance.  If anything, Christianity and its claims of being able to provide absolution are more Santa-like.  In Paganism, you're expected to take responsibility for your mistakes and make them right, not just ask (and, funny thing, always get) forgiveness from Invisible Sky Daddy.

Anyway, it was a personal conversion experience that I now realize was a semi-hallucinatory state brought on by a combination of sleep deprivation and putting myself into a deep meditative state.  It was far more intense and personally meaningful than anything I ever experienced as a Catholic.  I also realize now that it was something I wanted to experience, an excuse to finally leave the Catholic faith behind.  So it's not surprising that it happened.

So I cannot properly call it evidence as evidence is necessarily something that can be repeated and observed or experienced by others.  It was, however, personally meaningful at the time.  Eventually, with the distance of time, I was able to better analyze what had happened.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Atheon

The sense I get from Wicca is that its ideas and practices are a modern concoction of disparate traditions, such as the practices (real and imagined) of ancient Germanic, Celtic and Egyptian religions, New Age philosophy (like Theosophy), with a smattering of Eastern and Native American ideas thrown in for good measure. Add to this some completely modern, novel ideas. Though all religions are made up, most major ones like Judaism and Hinduism have evolved organically over the long terms, with their original invention enshrouded in the mists of an ancient  past. (It wouldn't surprise me if all the so-called "great" religions share a common source in some super-ancient tribal pantheon.)
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

trdsf

Quote from: Atheon on March 30, 2015, 04:28:31 AM
The sense I get from Wicca is that its ideas and practices are a modern concoction of disparate traditions, such as the practices (real and imagined) of ancient Germanic, Celtic and Egyptian religions, New Age philosophy (like Theosophy), with a smattering of Eastern and Native American ideas thrown in for good measure. Add to this some completely modern, novel ideas. Though all religions are made up, most major ones like Judaism and Hinduism have evolved organically over the long terms, with their original invention enshrouded in the mists of an ancient  past.
True enough, that.  And modern Wicca has a significant tradition of DIY -- most of the modern Neopagans I knew when I was active were intellectually honest enough to admit that the practices were new, and that no one today really knows what pre-Christian worship looked like -- partly due to the lack of records, partly due to non-Christian traditions begin repressed by the church, and partly due to many of the Pagan celebrations being adapted into the Church calendar by way of co-opting local beliefs (and then an active campaign to kick over the traces).

Quote from: Atheon on March 30, 2015, 04:28:31 AM
(It wouldn't surprise me if all the so-called "great" religions share a common source in some super-ancient tribal pantheon.)
In the West and Middle East, that would be Zoroastrianism, whose influences can be seen in Judaism, Christianity and Islam.  It's the great-granddad of monotheistic skyfather religions.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

SGOS

Wicca is a perfect religion for those who have a hunger to express their deep seated feelings of spirituality, especially if their spirituality revolves around vivid emotional experiences in the out doors.  If you get all goose bumpy over powerful organ music and gothic architecture, you will prefer Catholicism.

As far as legitimacy, Catholicism, Fundamentalism, and Wicca are all precisely equal in that there is no evidence for any of their central tenants.  None are more logically reasonable than the others.

trdsf

Quote from: SGOS on March 30, 2015, 08:13:16 AM
Wicca is a perfect religion for those who have a hunger to express their deep seated feelings of spirituality, especially if their spirituality revolves around vivid emotional experiences in the out doors.  If you get all goose bumpy over powerful organ music and gothic architecture, you will prefer Catholicism.
That's a good comparison -- the sense of awe I used to get as a believer presaged the real awe I feel looking through my telescope, or suddenly grasping a mathematical proof I never got before, or independently rediscovering some maths technique on my own.

And I have had Wiccans tell me that if they had to go to a Christian church, it would be a Catholic one specifically because of all the rite and ritual.

Anymore, though, the only thing that will get me in a church is an organ recital.  Mmmm, Bach.

Quote from: SGOS on March 30, 2015, 08:13:16 AM
As far as legitimacy, Catholicism, Fundamentalism, and Wicca are all precisely equal in that there is no evidence for any of their central tenants.  None are more logically reasonable than the others.
Logically reasonable, no.  But in the main, I find Wiccans more personally reasonable than Christians since Wicca is generally a revealed religion rather than a proselytized one -- one is called to Wicca rather than converted to it.  The phrase you'll hear a lot from Wiccans about how they came to their beliefs was that it was like 'coming home'.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

aitm

Quote from: Ace101 on March 29, 2015, 10:03:31 PM
Deism doesn't contradict science - belief in magic and pagan rituals does, as do all theistic versions of god
Science works quite well, it does not need god(s). God(s) however have a habit of being abundant when science is not prevalent…..not a coincidence to you? Yeah….deism doesn't contradict science…because it's too damn busy running from it.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

trdsf

Quote from: Ace101 on March 29, 2015, 10:11:55 PM
Never heard of Wiccas getting into 'debates' trying to convince others of their faith, or trying to find 'proof' of their Gods' origins like creationists do.

Wicca isn't a religion that conquers by conversion; practicing Wiccans aren't expected to spread the faith.  One comes to Wicca on their own, they are not 'convinced' into it by anyone other than themselves.  It is a revealed religion, not a preached religion.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan