The Karaites are a Jewish sect I can get behind

[zarus tathra (OP)]

See, this is one of the things that always annoyed me about talking to my little brother when he was in high school. Whenever he complained about somebody, he would always use very unspecific adjectives while refusing to cite any specific acts that would justify such a description. So when has a "modern" person been "backstabbing?" When have they treated you unfairly when it came to politics? What incidences stand out most in your mind? Have they gotten angry whenever you questioned their politics? Was the way you questioned their politics very difficult for anyone who wasn't well-versed in your political religion to understand? (This is very common among activists) If your answer is that you "can't remember" and that you insist on maintaining your opinion anyway, then GTFO.

[Franklin]

See, this is one of the things that always annoyed me about talking to my little brother when he was in high school. Whenever he complained about somebody, he would always use very unspecific adjectives while refusing to cite any specific acts that would justify such a description. So when has a "modern" person been "backstabbing?" When have they treated you unfairly when it came to politics? What incidences stand out most in your mind? If your answer is that you "can't remember" and that you insist on maintaining your opinion anyway, then GTFO.

I challenge you to define any culture.  Try defining French culture or Japanese culture.  Good luck.  The best you can do is adjectives and anecdotes.  I discuss modern culture and alternatives with some anecdotes here:

http://www.biblicjudaism.org/Modern-Culture-tp41.html

[zarus tathra (OP)]

Obviously I was looking for anecdotes, but you failed to provide even those. All I can find on your forum are a bunch of Biblical passages and some generalized rants of the kind that I was talking about.

Here's how you really complain about society:

[youtube:1p9kmhip][/youtube:1p9kmhip]

Say what you will about his politics and language, but at least he can cite activities and attitudes that really piss him off.

Here's another example: I hate the urban poor. Not because of a sense of elitism. I hate them because regardless of what I say or do or think short of public suicide, they will always hate me. And if I were to do that, they'd probably just laugh. So fuck them.

[Franklin]

Obviously I was looking for anecdotes, but you failed to provide even those. All I can find on your forum are a bunch of Biblical passages and some generalized rants of the kind that I was talking about.

Your signature says "Morals are self-serving."  I should have realized from this that you weren't going to get it.  Of course I provided anectdotes.  Anyway, I am unsubsubscribing from this thread, so goodbye and have a nice life.

[Plu]

Awww, you left before you could get the banhammer. Just in time, too.

[frosty]

I think it would smooth things over if you were more specific about what you meant by "modern values," Franklin. Most Americans probably wouldn't like having their fairly harmless, if a bit vacuous, celebrity-obsessed culture compared to North Korea's militaristic personality cults. Speaking more generally, I feel a lack of precise terminology is one of the primary causes of the irrationality of political discourse both here and abroad.

Concrete words cannot be defined, only described.  So here is a list of adjectives that I would use to describe modern culture: evil, immoral, shallow, fake, dishonest, untrustworthy, backstabbing, arrogant, self-righteous, inconsiderate, intolerant, closed-minded, hypocritical, anti-intellectual, vulgar, stupid, and obnoxious.

A good culture is one where people are trustworthy and where they will listen to different opinions without immediately reacting with insults.  By this standard, modern culture is the worst culture that I know of.

But yet those terms are all descriptive, which in turn are subjective, which in turn means they are just your own opinion. Once again, being judgmental and arrogant towards others has gotten you nothing but disrespect and rudeness back. You are playing the victim card by saying that modern culture 'reacts with insults' - a thin, yet in your face reference to this very forum you are on right now. Yet the only sources you provide for your claims are a website you are affiliated with, maybe even made yourself, and when people ask you to back yourself up you get offended.

The real problem here is you, and when you are challenged you run away. You can keep insulting everybody you want because they don't follow the same delusion as you, in the end of the day you are only self-assuring yourself of your own beliefs and you are the one who is fooling yourself. Until you straighten your act up you are always going to run into opposition on different forums, people worse than I am, who won't hesitate to really treat you bad because they are tired of your condescending and judgmental posts. Have a good one Franklin.

[Jaded]

I think it would smooth things over if you were more specific about what you meant by "modern values," Franklin. Most Americans probably wouldn't like having their fairly harmless, if somewhat vacuous, celebrity-obsessed culture compared to North Korea's militaristic personality cults.

I would challenge the point of the average American being harmless; we commit, through acts of passive-aggression, treason on this world that is comparable to considerable evil. If I could entertain you on a few points that may stand to exemplify my sentiments...

Most chocolate is produced using cocoa from the Ivory Coast - it is not difficult to find video evidence and journalistic reports of children being stolen from their homes, trafficked and forced to work on plantations for no pay or medical aid, despite what you may read on the front page of the Nestle website concerning it's association with Fair Trade... We have an entire holiday that emphasizes the consumption of chocolate. A lot of these facts are staring us right in the eyes: deforestation for the American dream, for example, or the harvesting of palm oil that is used in beauty products, which is leveling forests and destroying the homes of natives and wildlife... The consumer culture that we've created, where a large portion of our jobs are white-collar, combined with our lack of ability to provide for ourselves is causing a demand that is destroying the ecology all around the world and marginalizing the value of other countries that are going out of their way to appeal to our dollar...

I could keep talking about all of the pollution that we cause and all of the energy that we waste in our failure to compromise as a culture and take responsibility upon ourselves, but I honestly don't expect the significance of this message to find its way to a hearken ear. You must have heard it all before - that we are appealing to the mindlessly indulgent corporations that are ruling our lives - but your hesitancy makes me question whether or not you truly understand the impact of our combined choices... but I personally don't believe that the destruction of nature and slavery in the name of our own apathy and vanity are harmless deeds...

[FrankDK]

> So now we know what the real name of God is.

God's name is Jealous.  Exodus 34:14

Frank

[zarus tathra (OP)]

I just read Franklin's whole post that he linked to and it turns out that he had provided exactly what was asked. I just failed to read his entire post and ended up dismissing him as just an angry ranter. The full text of the email I sent to him apologizing for my indiscretion is here:

In case you need a reminder, I created a thread a while back about the karaites that you found by Googling on atheistforums.com. I asked for some anecdotes and scriptural passages justifying your complaints about modern American society, and you presented a forum post made by you on biblicaljudaism.org. Much to my shame, I dismissed your words as unspecified complaining, because in that post you provided exactly what I asked, and in my sloth, I failed to read the whole thing, which would have forced me to recognize it as such.

If by some miracle you feel a desire to return to that forum, then here is the link to the thread:

http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=6010.105