The Karaites are a Jewish sect I can get behind

[zarus tathra (OP)]

To make a long story short, the Karaites are a sect of Judaism that believes that only the Torah is the official Word of God and that commentaries on the Torah that are commonly treated as being sacred by mainstream Jews like the Talmud are nothing more than commentaries. This seems harmless enough, and in fact most non-Jews would think that that's the default for Judaism, but the reality is that the Talmud and other commentaries are commonly treated as being more important than the Torah, to the point that most Jewish families have a Talmud (which generally costs thousands of dollars) but no Torah.

This in itself is actually quite significant. If personal interpretations of a religious text are treated as being as socially significant as the religious text itself, then that will naturally engender a tendency towards self-aggrandizement and an inflated sense of self-importance. This will also decrease one's sense of reality, since the truth can be treated as something that is continuously "reinterpreted." Not to be "anti-semitic," but you can not deny that this POV characterizes America's media, legal system, and political culture, all of which are dominated by a culture that is deeply influenced by Talmudic Judaism.

The main exception to this within Judaism is the loyal-to-the-original-text Karaite sect. These guys have generally been treated well by every traditionally anti-Jewish regime which they came into contact with. The Russian Czars gave them an exemption from anti-Judaic laws, even the Nazis gave them an exemption. In fact, the only people they've had a long history of conflict with are mainstream Jews due to their hostility towards Rabbinical authority.

If you see some Karaite videos on Youtube, it's easy to see why even anti-Judaic regimes would leave them alone. They are perfect role models for the common man. They have a strong sense of loyalty to culture and to family without being clannish and insular and douchey about it. They're self-deprecating and humorous without being overbearingly sarcastic. They just seem like cool guys.

[youtube:2keexhhp][/youtube:2keexhhp]

[Solitary]

Speaking of Asiah, there were three, and the last one was probably a woman. I debated this with a priest and pastor and won the debate using their own Scripture. It's not only amazing that Christians don't read their own Scripture, but even more amazing when their leaders don't.  :roll:  Solitary

[zarus tathra (OP)]

Hahahah, I just installed a browser wordfilter, and I have it so that it replaces every instance of the G-word with "Cthulhu."

[Solitary]

:shock:  :rollin: So now we know what the real name of God is.  [-X  :-$  Solitary

[GrinningYMIR]

ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

[zarus tathra (OP)]

Another bro-tier Karaite

[youtube:m642hyf8][/youtube:m642hyf8]

[Franklin]

Hi zarus tathra,

I was bored and googled "karaite" and found this thread.  There is a Karaite synagogue in Daly City, California, that I plan to join this summer.  (I have to move there.)  I used to be an atheist.  My beliefs haven't so much changed as my values.  I know that atheists insist that their definition is lack of belief in God, but then North Korea calls itself the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.  I don't just accept definitions, I see if they match reality.  And the reality is that virtually all atheists share modern values which are in sharp contrast to the values of other cultures.  My values are not modern values which I see as decadent.  The Karaites allow you to interpret the Bible for yourself.  My interpretation isn't literal and I choose to define God as the laws of nature, particularly those laws that support morality.  So I can join the Karaite synagogue without accepting supernatural beliefs.  I love the values of the Hebrew Bible, so this is a perfect fit for me.

[Plu]

You could also consider Unitarian Universialism in that case. But if your values are those of ancient cultures, you'll probably enjoy life in synagogues :)

[zarus tathra (OP)]

I agree that atheism correlates too perfectly with certain political and personal values. The Left makes all the alliances that it can because it is so greedy for power.

[frosty]

Hi zarus tathra,

I was bored and googled "karaite" and found this thread.  There is a Karaite synagogue in Daly City, California, that I plan to join this summer.  (I have to move there.)  I used to be an atheist.  My beliefs haven't so much changed as my values.  I know that atheists insist that their definition is lack of belief in God, but then North Korea calls itself the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.  I don't just accept definitions, I see if they match reality.  And the reality is that virtually all atheists share modern values which are in sharp contrast to the values of other cultures.  My values are not modern values which I see as decadent.  The Karaites allow you to interpret the Bible for yourself.  My interpretation isn't literal and I choose to define God as the laws of nature, particularly those laws that support morality.  So I can join the Karaite synagogue without accepting supernatural beliefs.  I love the values of the Hebrew Bible, so this is a perfect fit for me.

What does... North Korea have to do with anything here? Yes, Atheists in general seem to have "modern values", and that's just the beauty of secularism and separation of religion and state. You can bark all you want on an Atheist forum and I can disagree with you like I'm doing now  :-D Isn't freedom of thought and freedom of and from religion just great?  :)

[Franklin]

I agree that atheism correlates too perfectly with certain political and personal values. The Left makes all the alliances that it can because it is so greedy for power.

So then where do you see yourself fitting in?  Do you like modern culture?  Do you think you fit with the people on this forum?  To be honest, the average IQ here seems pretty low.

[frosty]

I agree that atheism correlates too perfectly with certain political and personal values. The Left makes all the alliances that it can because it is so greedy for power.

So then where do you see yourself fitting in?  Do you like modern culture?  Do you think you fit with the people on this forum?  To be honest, the average IQ here seems pretty low.

Thanks for proving me right about how you have the sin of pure, unabashed arrogance. You can't handle a difference of opinion so you either ignore or insult, either way since you have chosen not to get off your high horse all I can see for you on this website is running into bigger assholes than I am. I'm actually not that bad compared to some other users here, I'm just trying to be honest and give you some advice, but like a good little religious person you'll just believe whatever you want to feel better about your own self.

Just remember, not everyone that doesn't agree with you has a low IQ. They just disagree with you, nothing you can do about that  :) . Have a good one, buddy!  

[Shiranu]

I just realized Franklin lives relatively right next to me. Small world.

[zarus tathra (OP)]

I think it would smooth things over if you were more specific about what you meant by "modern values," Franklin. Most Americans probably wouldn't like having their fairly harmless, if somewhat vacuous, celebrity-obsessed culture compared to North Korea's militaristic personality cults. Speaking more generally, I feel a lack of precise terminology is one of the primary causes of the irrationality of political discourse both here and abroad. And looking over Karaite writings, much of their discourse is very precise, with plentiful citations, so learning to be more particular would probably help you fit in with them.

What I would mean by the unhealthy political undertones that correlate too well with atheism would basically be a militant belief in the equality of people. I am an atheist, but I really don't like the leftist obsession with equality. Multiculturalism, ideally, would involve healthy competition between different cultures in which only the most welcome ideas would survive, but in practice it usually means the careful and arbitrary protection of inefficient cultural norms. This even extends to their views on genetics, where people maintain beyond all reason that genetics has NO effect on one's mental fitness. That's not even unscientific, it's just stupid.

[Franklin]

I think it would smooth things over if you were more specific about what you meant by "modern values," Franklin. Most Americans probably wouldn't like having their fairly harmless, if a bit vacuous, celebrity-obsessed culture compared to North Korea's militaristic personality cults. Speaking more generally, I feel a lack of precise terminology is one of the primary causes of the irrationality of political discourse both here and abroad.

Concrete words cannot be defined, only described.  So here is a list of adjectives that I would use to describe modern culture: evil, immoral, shallow, fake, dishonest, untrustworthy, backstabbing, arrogant, self-righteous, inconsiderate, intolerant, closed-minded, hypocritical, anti-intellectual, vulgar, stupid, and obnoxious.

A good culture is one where people are trustworthy and where they will listen to different opinions without immediately reacting with insults.  By this standard, modern culture is the worst culture that I know of.