unionized stocker job

[hillbillyatheist]

I may be getting a job at a local king soopers which is part of krogers if I'm not mistaken. I have to call sunday to set up interview.

here's the thing. its a overnight gig that pays 8.10 an hour even though its unionized.  

I've worked as an overnight people greeter at walmart and made 8 bucks an hour.
so after the union dues it actually pays LESS than walmart.

now I'm no union basher as to me thats like saying we should end all police departments instead of simply fixing corruption.

but it doesn't sound like they're doing much for the union dues I'd be forced to pay. anybody else in or know people in unionized grocery stores?

what's it like? is that just a starting pay that skyrockets once I've been there for a while, or is the union UFCW shitty and no better than walmart they claim to despise?

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I'm with you there and know exactly where you're coming from. I was offered a job at Kroger before at minimum wage, then $4.25 an hour, but had to join the union and pay union dues on top of it and support four kids. I'm not anti-union,  but if any union wants support they MUST support decent, living wages for ALL members not just those with seniority. My ex worked a union job as a cashier at RiteAid pharmacy, also minimum wage and when she was wrongly accused of theft in the store and summarily fired the union said not one word.
The unions are stuck between a rock and a hard place though and not all unions represent members equally. They have to satisfy workers who do get high wages while trying to appeal to workers at the very bottom and one reason their appeal often isn't so appealing is exactly what you're asking. Will your wages skyrocket? I wouldn't count on it, but then you're looking at a relatively small difference in union representation with dues or zero representation with Walmart's reputation..

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I'm with you there and know exactly where you're coming from. I was offered a job at Kroger before at minimum wage, then $4.25 an hour, but had to join the union and pay union dues on top of it and support four kids. I'm not anti-union,  but if any union wants support they MUST support decent, living wages for ALL members not just those with seniority. My ex worked a union job as a cashier at RiteAid pharmacy, also minimum wage and when she was wrongly accused of theft in the store and summarily fired the union said not one word.
The unions are stuck between a rock and a hard place though and not all unions represent members equally. They have to satisfy workers who do get high wages while trying to appeal to workers at the very bottom and one reason their appeal often isn't so appealing is exactly what you're asking. Will your wages skyrocket? I wouldn't count on it, but then you're looking at a relatively small difference in union representation with dues or zero yrepresentation with Walmart's reputation.. Also consider your dues would help contribute to political campaigns and causes. So will lack of wages with Walmart.
Half dozen of one, six of the other.. Pick your poison. :-k

[PopeyesPappy]

Where are you at these days, HBA? Colorado or Oklahoma?

[hillbillyatheist]

Colorado right now. I'm looking into a move back to Oklahoma due to lower cost of living and closer to family, but like that colorado is turning blue, so haven't ruled out staying if I can. Oklahoma is quite literally one of if not the most right wing teabagger state in the union.

also @ allpurposeatheist, you pretty much nailed it.

[PopeyesPappy]

In this particular situation you'd be better off in Oklahoma. As a right to work state you wouldn't be forced to join the union and pay dues even though the position is covered under the collective bargaining agreement.

Salary isn't the whole story though. What kind of benefits package do they have? You'd be better off at $8.10 an hour with good insurance and paid time off than you would be at $10 and no insurance.

[hillbillyatheist]

on vacations and health insurance it is better than walmart. after 3 years you can take 3 weeks paid vacation if I'm not mistaken.

with obamacare and colorado accepting medicaid expansion I'm better off here than in oklahoma.

and right to work is bad imo. I think laws and regulations need to be put in place that fights union corruption and makes sure it represents its workers, fairly but right to work is just a way to bust unions.

I'm for more unions, just that we make sure they do their jobs.


if they just become an old boys network making cushy jobs for worthless shits with seniority while poor folks like me get stuck with union dues and no real representation, then it defeats the whole point of having unions.
 
right to work though would be like passing a law that solves police corruption by saying nobody has to listen to the cops. sure, you'd end the police corruption but then have criminals free to roam the streets with impunity.  in this case the store could hire scabs until the union was no more. then the store could do whatever it wants like walmart does.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I know unions have often sold out younger workers in favor of entrenched interests, mainly older workers with seniority. That's part of doing business with them. Also in years past they were infiltrated by mobsters, likely hired by union busting rubes, but it had the effect of giving unions extremely bad press leaving a bad taste with the voting public.
The printers union forced my dads company out of business in the 70's. He was managing editor, but lowest paid employee of the newspaper only because in management he wasn't a union member.
I'd love to say unions are great, but history tells a different story.

[PopeyesPappy]

on vacations and health insurance it is better than walmart. after 3 years you can take 3 weeks paid vacation if I'm not mistaken.

with obamacare and colorado accepting medicaid expansion I'm better off here than in oklahoma.

and right to work is bad imo. I think laws and regulations need to be put in place that fights union corruption and makes sure it represents its workers, fairly but right to work is just a way to bust unions.

I'm for more unions, just that we make sure they do their jobs.


if they just become an old boys network making cushy jobs for worthless shits with seniority while poor folks like me get stuck with union dues and no real representation, then it defeats the whole point of having unions.
 
right to work though would be like passing a law that solves police corruption by saying nobody has to listen to the cops. sure, you'd end the police corruption but then have criminals free to roam the streets with impunity.  in this case the store could hire scabs until the union was no more. then the store could do whatever it wants like walmart does.

I disagree. When I got out of the army in 87 I went to work for Boeing as a data technician in a union shop. It didn't take me very long to figure out that it was, "an old boys network making cushy jobs for worthless shits with seniority while poor folks like me get stuck with union dues and no real representation." I quit the union and kept my job.

A couple of years later they recompeted the contract. There were two different shops with data technicians. One worked the facility in general. Our shop did mission support. While all the techs shared the same job title we had a lot of equipment they had never seen before. i.e. We had skills they didn't. However their shop was going to be scaled back. People were going to be laid off. Most of them were senior to us so they were going to get our jobs and we were going to be out of work. Lockheed didn't want that to happen because they knew the people in the facilities shop couldn't do our jobs so they offered to let us vote ourselves out of the union. We did. We got new job titles and merit based raises. We kept our jobs. Some of the union people got laid off.

[hillbillyatheist]

in our current environment I can't say I blame you. Even I if I have the choice of a corrupt union shop vs a non union shop, I'd more than likely go nonunion unless the nonunion shop was even worse. I'm not employed right now but things look promising at wendy's and king soopers. Wendy's is during the day and with colorado's minimum wage going up to 8 dollars in january will be just ten cents less than king soopers and a day job. it'll actually pay MORE given that I'm not stuck with union dues.

So I can certainly understand why people would oppose unions that make them pay dues while they help an old boys network.

but if we don't have unions that leads me to ask how would you support protecting workers?

granted imo we need to protect workers from corrupt unions too, but I'd do that by mandating how unions would run, so that they wouldn't be able to rig the game for "people with seniority" over people with merit, but could still allow employees to unite against things like ridiculously low pay and no benefits or vacation times.
right to work does solve the corrupt union problem, and if I was in oklahoma and taking the king sooper job I'd certainly opt out despite my reservations about right to work.

but that still leaves me wondering how to fix the larger problem of how workers get treated.

I think the solution is giving unions more power but passing strict regulations on them and how they run to prevent things like favoritism and seniority and such. kinda like making sure we have cops to catch criminals but make sure we protect ourselves from corrupt cops.

how would you solve it? thats not a trick question i'm genuinely curious.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Got a pickup truck? There's always work if you own a decent pickup..
I made out ok selling scrap and appliances in Texas, but it took a few years to get known and established.
Self employment solves the union dues issue..

[Solitary]

You can thank Reagan for busting unions and making them partners with the companies instead of the workers. I started a union with the school district I worked for and was on the board, the first year we got a dollar raise an hour which is a terrific raise and thought we made a good move. Next year we got nothing and so on, so we complained to the union boss that represented us. The union office had a closed door meeting with the school officials and I wasn't even invited while they made an agreement that they would give us 25cent per hour raise, and no raise for the next 5 years to keep up with the cost of living. this is in Arizona a right to work State that really means right to work for less.

I was a union representative in Illinois and when it started in order to join the union you had to serve as an apprentice until you could get a card. The contractors liked to hire people even with higher wages because they knew the job would be done right. But then things changed, the crook in the union decided to let people buy their card with no experience. They did crappy work that had to be redone, so the contractors started to pay less and the unions went along with it. When Reagan got in office he went all out to destroy the unions and let them stay by getting paid off to screw the workers. I quit the union even though I was a union Stewart that could shut done a job where they weren't protecting the workers, paying no benefits, or using non union workers because it got so crooked.

They tried to privatize the jobs at the school district that cost so much money they had to get bond issues past which the tax payers having to pay for in the long run with higher taxes while the officials skim off the top.
The Republicans want to privatize everything, and it doesn't work for the better for the working man. Look what happened to the flight controllers after Reagan. The Republicans are for business not the workers, and so are the unions. The working man has NO ONE THAT LOOKS OUT FOR THEM NOW AND THE REPUBLICANS DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO STOP THEM FROM HAVING REPRESENTATION OR POLITICAL CLOUT. Are they thinking of the country or the working man when they filibuster everything and shut down the government for their benefit and all their rich friends? Dummying down the Nation is their goal and they have succeeded by playing on peoples fears and prejudices and dividing the Nation to weaken it.   Solitary

[hillbillyatheist]

LOL don't have a vehicle and can't see to drive. That won't work. I busked some over the summer, but ain't doing that shit when its 10 below zero.

[Minimalist]

Just remember that it isn't the union paying the CEO millions of dollars while you flip burgers.

[Plu]

after 3 years you can take 3 weeks paid vacation if I'm not mistaken.

Is this for serious? You don't get paid vacation until after 3 years, and even then only 3 weeks?  :-&