Democracy is dead in Detroit

[AllPurposeAtheist]

So a governor in Michigan who lost in the elections in Detroit 20-1 gets to arbitrarily appoint a henchman in the name of 'emergency manager' who was also widely rejected by voters to sack the city of assets, cut pensions across the board and play king over a city reeling from deindustrialisation, but voters don't get to decide a damned thing.
WARNING: The same thing may soon come to a city near you if the GOP has its way.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/177433/de ... 2020131203

[Jason78]

Isn't this why you've got the 2nd amendment?  So that when democracy fails, you can replace it with a better one?

[Shiranu]

Isn't this why you've got the 2nd amendment?  So that when democracy fails, you can replace it with a better one?

That might have worked back in the 1800's when both the military and the civilian had no body armour and flint-lock rifles, but I don't think the 10 people in the United States willing to put their life on the line to overthrow the government with an ar-15 or a glock will do much good against police with armoured vehicles, heavy body armour and all sorts of military-grade equipment for disabling people.

And then of course even if they beat the police, the military would step in, and I highly doubt the small arms will do much against tanks and a highly trained armed forces.

The only way the 2nd amendment would be useful for over-throwing the government if it allowed civilians to carry RPGs, assorted anti-air munitions, all sorts of I.E.D.s and military grade vehicles. The only possible way the people could beat the government is if the military turned against them or you assassinated the leaders, which violates international law and would instantly delegitimize the movement.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

This all from the party always screaming about the constitution. Governor Snyder couldn't get elected to clean shitters in Detroit, but as king and royalty he seems to handle power well enough to dictate terms. But of course they don't really believe that constitution crap. It's for suckers. The thing being grossly misrepresented in the news is the city never filed for bankruptcy. It was imposed on them and the governor arbitrarily decided what's best for people who completely rejected him.
They inflated city liabilities to include state liabilities and who knows whatever liabilities and has in effect stripped Detroit of all autonomy.

[SGOS]

This is chilling.  When people become despondent as their world collapses around them, make way for the dictators to seize power from the chaos.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

The thing is it's all a shell game to make people believe Detroit is completely incapable of making decisions for itself right or wrong, but if that's true the same must be true of Lansing and the governors office.

[mykcob4]

I have a very strong feeling about the Detroit situation. All the conservaturds want to blame the unions but it isn't the unions fault. Detroit use to have a large population of well paid workers...mostly union. The  American auto industry decided it was going to make crappy cars of low quality that would wear out quickly so people would be forced to buy new crappy cars that wear out quickly. Foriegn car companies decided to subsidize their industry with government money and to use virtually slave labor to build quality cars and capture the American market. So American companies decided to move out of Detroit to Korea, and Mexico. Buicks are made in Korea!!!!!
The Detroit infrustruct collapsed. It's not the fault of unions and it isn't the fault of intitlements. If the foriegn workers were paid a fair wage, if those factories had to meet a reasonable safety and pollution standard, if the American companies made quality cars and didn't become so fucking greedy, Detroit would not only be fine but actually operate in the black.
Detroit is a failure because of corrupt greedy corporations and conservative idealism.

[SGOS]

I have a very strong feeling about the Detroit situation. All the conservaturds want to blame the unions but it isn't the unions fault. Detroit use to have a large population of well paid workers...mostly union. The  American auto industry decided it was going to make crappy cars of low quality that would wear out quickly so people would be forced to buy new crappy cars that wear out quickly. Foriegn car companies decided to subsidize their industry with government money and to use virtually slave labor to build quality cars and capture the American market. So American companies decided to move out of Detroit to Korea, and Mexico. Buicks are made in Korea!!!!!
The Detroit infrustruct collapsed. It's not the fault of unions and it isn't the fault of intitlements. If the foriegn workers were paid a fair wage, if those factories had to meet a reasonable safety and pollution standard, if the American companies made quality cars and didn't become so fucking greedy, Detroit would not only be fine but actually operate in the black.
Detroit is a failure because of corrupt greedy corporations and conservative idealism.

It seemed to me way back in the 60s and 70s that management in Detroit didn't take the Japanese seriously.  It's like they figured they were to big for anyone to seriously compete with them.  They just kept doing what they were doing and put their capital into advertising claims about how much they were improving and circulating rumors about how you couldn't get parts to fix a Japanese car, which was kind of pointless since Japanese cars were so reliable that finding parts was mostly unnecessary.  Although, I never had a problem, not once, finding a part my Japanese car.  Instead of improving, the American auto industry invested in smoke and mirrors.

By the time they figured out people were buying foreign cars because they were better, it was way too late.  American consumers had figured out the superior quality of Japanese cars long before Detroit got off it's ass and started to retool.  By that time, other countries had figured out they could also compete with the American auto industry by building better cars, which apparently wasn't all that hard to do.

American cars have improved greatly in recent years, but America lost it's market share before it decided to act.  It seems willing to create as good a car as the foreign markets, but apparently lacks the technology to make a better car.  Detroit management had fallen asleep at the wheel of progress.

I had a conservative friend tell me 30 years ago that the problem was with the unions, but I had already read an article by financial auto analyst in Barons Weekly that pinned the problem on sleepy management, rather than lazy union workers.  That information was provided by someone who was simply looking at the problem and figuring out where to invest, rather than cheering or defaming.  That information got my friend pissed at me.  Of course, he was in management at the time.

[Solitary]

When I was young it was all Chevy or GM cars until I bought a Buick Sky Hawk that started to fall apart three days after I bought it. It finally cost me more for major problems than what I owed on it. I bought two Fiats, one being the most fun in a car I had outside of my 63 Corvette Stingray. I then got a Honda accord that was bullet proof, as well as a Toyota that was. My son bought a Nissan that was beautiful and fast, then an Acura. Then I own a Subaru turbo with four wheel drive that would blow the doors off most cars. Then a Jeep Wrangler that quit after three days because of electrical problems. I  now own a Juke I paid only $22,000 for that has everything you can get on a car with leather interior that is without a doubt the best car I have had. I still don't trust American cars. What's funny is Hondas and Toyotas are made here with union contracts.  :roll: Solitary

[AllPurposeAtheist]

The question of bankruptcy has little to do with quality at this point. It's about the GOP shitcanning democracy in the name of busting unions, robbing pensions and further disenfranchising people. There's not much for unions to do in Detroit anymore but to try to protect retirees.

[mykcob4]

I have a very strong feeling about the Detroit situation. All the conservaturds want to blame the unions but it isn't the unions fault. Detroit use to have a large population of well paid workers...mostly union. The  American auto industry decided it was going to make crappy cars of low quality that would wear out quickly so people would be forced to buy new crappy cars that wear out quickly. Foriegn car companies decided to subsidize their industry with government money and to use virtually slave labor to build quality cars and capture the American market. So American companies decided to move out of Detroit to Korea, and Mexico. Buicks are made in Korea!!!!!
The Detroit infrustruct collapsed. It's not the fault of unions and it isn't the fault of intitlements. If the foriegn workers were paid a fair wage, if those factories had to meet a reasonable safety and pollution standard, if the American companies made quality cars and didn't become so fucking greedy, Detroit would not only be fine but actually operate in the black.
Detroit is a failure because of corrupt greedy corporations and conservative idealism.

It seemed to me way back in the 60s and 70s that management in Detroit didn't take the Japanese seriously.  It's like they figured they were to big for anyone to seriously compete with them.  They just kept doing what they were doing and put their capital into advertising claims about how much they were improving and circulating rumors about how you couldn't get parts to fix a Japanese car, which was kind of pointless since Japanese cars were so reliable that finding parts was mostly unnecessary.  Although, I never had a problem, not once, finding a part my Japanese car.  Instead of improving, the American auto industry invested in smoke and mirrors.

By the time they figured out people were buying foreign cars because they were better, it was way too late.  American consumers had figured out the superior quality of Japanese cars long before Detroit got off it's ass and started to retool.  By that time, other countries had figured out they could also compete with the American auto industry by building better cars, which apparently wasn't all that hard to do.

American cars have improved greatly in recent years, but America lost it's market share before it decided to act.  It seems willing to create as good a car as the foreign markets, but apparently lacks the technology to make a better car.  Detroit management had fallen asleep at the wheel of progress.

I had a conservative friend tell me 30 years ago that the problem was with the unions, but I had already read an article by financial auto analyst in Barons Weekly that pinned the problem on sleepy management, rather than lazy union workers.  That information was provided by someone who was simply looking at the problem and figuring out where to invest, rather than cheering or defaming.  That information got my friend pissed at me.  Of course, he was in management at the time.

Yep you got it. The conservaturds blame unions and they are flat out wrong. It's true that American cars are better made but they are made by Koreans and Mexicans, not made in the USA. The foriegn car companies that have built factories in the USA as part of an economic exchange, do so minimally and only because they have to. They don't pay good wages and refuse to hire union. They get big tax abatements and build only in the conservaturd south where corporations are allowed to abuse workers, don't have to pay taxes of any kind, and pollution laws are not enforced.
I read an article in Inc. Magazine that stated that half of all cars on the road today are built in Mexico. That the standard for the product is met but the conditions, wages and pollution to make those cars is way out of wack with what is reasonable. An assembly worker in Mexico makes less than $5 dollars a day, works 6, 10 hour shifts a week, in conditions that a hasmat team would have to gear up for. And the factories don't have to pay taxes. It is disgraceful!

[Eve]

So a governor in Michigan who lost in the elections in Detroit 20-1 gets to arbitrarily appoint a henchman in the name of 'emergency manager' who was also widely rejected by voters to sack the city of assets, cut pensions across the board and play king over a city reeling from deindustrialisation, but voters don't get to decide a damned thing.
WARNING: The same thing may soon come to a city near you if the GOP has its way.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/177433/de ... 2020131203

Detroit. Isn't it in blue state?

[hillbillyatheist]

mississippi. isn't that a red state?

[Eve]

mississippi. isn't that a red state?

I thought that only Democrats are the ones who know how to run well.
Looks like they are not so good :rollin:

[mykcob4]

So a governor in Michigan who lost in the elections in Detroit 20-1 gets to arbitrarily appoint a henchman in the name of 'emergency manager' who was also widely rejected by voters to sack the city of assets, cut pensions across the board and play king over a city reeling from deindustrialisation, but voters don't get to decide a damned thing.
WARNING: The same thing may soon come to a city near you if the GOP has its way.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/177433/de ... 2020131203

Detroit. Isn't it in blue state?

Again you don't even know what you are talking about.
The governor is a conservaturd but Michegan is most assuredly a blue state dumbass.