Why Islam will fail long term.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

It's pure magical thinking to believe religion will die out now or ever for that matter. Religion takes many forms and as pointed out is very opportunistic and will morph in time to make people believe as they often do in western culture their good fortune and better standards of living is a direct blessing from god(s).
Feel free to think religion is dying out. You're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts about human nature.

[leo]

It's pure magical thinking to believe religion will die out now or ever for that matter. Religion takes many forms and as pointed out is very opportunistic and will morph in time to make people believe as they often do in western culture their good fortune and better standards of living is a direct blessing from god(s).
Feel free to think religion is dying out. You're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts about human nature.

^^ this . Religion will not die . New bullshit will be invented .

[robandrob1]

I don't believe that humanity slides toward freedom and equality as if it were a natural default state.  I wonder sometimes if western style democracy might be just a temporary anomaly in the human condition.

Oppressive religions have a much more durable track record lasting for thousands of years with very little change.

I think there will always be a battle between collectivism and individualism, authoritarianism and liberalism, however the nature of the battle may well change.  Once you give people private personal freedoms you can't just take them all away again, you can't put that genie back in the bottle, can you imagine the British Taliban forcing their way into peoples homes and smashing their television sets, i-pads and i-phones?  We live in an era where smashing someones flatscreen TV or internet modem is about the closest thing to sacrilege you can get. That doesn't necessarily prevent a 21st century free society from reverting to an authoritarian society, it just precludes a free society reverting to a totalitarian society.  The 21st century authoritarianism allows you personal freedoms, property rights, an acceptable standard of living, privacy and entertainment as long as you bow to the King and don't curse the authorities in public (e.g Russia, China, Azerbaijan, Syria etc).  North Korea is an anomaly, once they transition from totalitarianism to authoritarianism they won't be able to switch back again, just as China can't revert to the days of Mao.  Even the Ayatollah's in Iran have sensed the danger of an overtly totalitarian system, so they try to walk the thin line between authoritarianism and totalitarianism, they'll tolerate young women in Tehran wearing a loose fitting Hijab and brightly colored clothing because they sense the regimes vulnerability.  They can't just flog the life out of girls with loose fitting hijab anymore, at least not in the capital, it would generate widespread resentment.  

If the Muslim world embraces totalitarianism and religious fanaticism they will be reduced to a permanent state of economic, scientific and cultural poverty.  In which case the solution is quarantine, they wouldn't be able to develop sufficient military power to conquer any western countries, leaving conversion as their only avenue of victory.  I find it unlikely that most Muslims would embrace Taliban style totalitarianism, meaning that the system would have to be imposed.  Despite Muslims calling fellow believers 'brothers' and sisters' religious fanaticism does not create a united front.  Have you ever seen secular people getting into violent arguments about how long peoples beards should be or which incantations they need to utter whilst praying?  Religious fanatics aren't just prone to attacking infidels, they will casually attack fellow believers and 'heretics' for slight deviations from dogma.  I think that any future Islamic totalitarian state will inevitably be short lived, unless it's in an extremely poor and very rural country.

[Floydian]

its a healthy discussion though but on the whole, religion is opium of the people. since the inception of this very world people had gone through different versions of god and religions. and the funny thing is that every time they thought they were right...
And i dont think any religion would fail in near future let alone ISLAM. topic is about islam so i would stick to it and wont deviate.
having followed islam for two long years consistently, meeting different people and knowing their thoughts, their doctrines, and their believes i came to a conclusion that they all are empty cans, all they know is shout and referred me to higher priests to clear my mind. but if it is so then why doesnt Islam fail? it has failed, believe me, but they (the feudal lords of islam) living in saudi pays handsomely to maintain the so called structure of islam. same is the case with sects within the islam for instance shias. having their lords in Iran. its a power game and minority is exploited, as always. they are nothing but an army ready to die in the name of god and islam will last until its defeated.

[stromboli]

its a healthy discussion though but on the whole, religion is opium of the people. since the inception of this very world people had gone through different versions of god and religions. and the funny thing is that every time they thought they were right...
And i dont think any religion would fail in near future let alone ISLAM. topic is about islam so i would stick to it and wont deviate.
having followed islam for two long years consistently, meeting different people and knowing their thoughts, their doctrines, and their believes i came to a conclusion that they all are empty cans, all they know is shout and referred me to higher priests to clear my mind. but if it is so then why doesnt Islam fail? it has failed, believe me, but they (the feudal lords of islam) living in saudi pays handsomely to maintain the so called structure of islam. same is the case with sects within the islam for instance shias. having their lords in Iran. its a power game and minority is exploited, as always. they are nothing but an army ready to die in the name of god and islam will last until its defeated.

Agree. There is too much power and wealth attached to religion to assume it will go gently into the night, any religion. My experience with religion is that the majority are "empty cans" (nice metaphor) Imams and Arab sheikhs that enjoy the level of autonomy they do are not going to let their power go easily.

[frosty]

As an Atheist I've been called an empty shell quite a few times before - the ASSumption the religionist(s) make is that since I don't agree with their very subjective beliefs on life, that I must be an awful and empty person. Yet they always seem to omit their own flaws, their own mistakes, their own feelings of emptiness. On the contrary, I myself no longer feel empty, I have matured in life and realized that I should appreciate the time I have to be alive and that I should not take anything for granted because any day could very well be my last.

[Sulaco]

Is basically the central point of your argument. That just because some people like yourself, overall a small number

I'm in a country where the majority of the population aren't religious.

So I think it's a matter of perspective.

I'm assuming you're from a country where religion is predominant? Perhaps the US?

, are able to shed superstition that means that objectively as a whole religion is doomed to fail and soon.

I never said it was going to happen soon. I said it will happen over a long period of time, as I attribute religion to be a part of evolution.

You are free to believe that if you wish but in reality it just doesn't add up.

The reality is that neither of us will know the outcome. It's just one theory vs another, based on the information we have available to us. It seems that your perspective and mine are in opposition to one another.. and that's fine.

[frosty]

The thread has already been resolved, Sulaco. Please stop multi quoting posts just so you can win an argument.

[Brian37]

It's pure magical thinking to believe religion will die out now or ever for that matter. Religion takes many forms and as pointed out is very opportunistic and will morph in time to make people believe as they often do in western culture their good fortune and better standards of living is a direct blessing from god(s).
Feel free to think religion is dying out. You're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts about human nature.

No no no, evolution does not care if you invent and fact find or make shit up. Evolution is only about getting to the point of reproduction.

When I say "Islam will fail", I mean like the dark ages of Christianity did. Of course religion will exist. Scientology was started by a si fi writer. It also should not shock anyone if a religion was started around "Star Wars".

I am saying secularism will put enough cracks in Islam long term that it will have to adapt or die. If it adapts like Christianity had to, it will not be the political fascism that controls the east.

But no matter what it is highly unlikely in 70,000 years if our species is still here that all the modern monotheism will exist.

I simply don't see how the government's of Islam will grow or compete with dark age thinking.

[Ksa]

Hmmm...testing signature
Ahhhh...works.