10 Things Traditional Christians Got Wrong

Started by stromboli, November 10, 2013, 06:23:45 PM

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Eve

Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"
Quote from: "Eve"Can You be AT LEAST more civil? Gosh.
Asking mykob4 to be civil around theists is like asking a cat to stop scratching furniture.
I have faith in him. I believe he has potential  to improve his civility.  :-D

Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Honestly, the only reason I don't post in that style myself is because I think it's funny when you theists take my civility to mean that I'm taking you seriously.
I take Your civility because I think You like to be civil. Because I believe that it is natural for You. Am I wrong? Please, tell me that I am wrong. :)

PickelledEggs

Quote from: "Eve"
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"
QuoteYou MARKSIST!!!
I think you mean Marxist... after Karl marx, the father of communism.

Btw, I can tell that you have no clue how walmart does business. Please do some research before calling someone a communist.
May be I don't know how Walmart does business but I know that I NEED Walmart. I wish for something like Walmart when I lived in USSR and  when Big Brother took care of me.
Are You progressive? if yes, you are communist. There is one little difference between communists and progressives. Communists take responsibilty for evil they do. Progressives blame  insurance company or Walmart. PERIOD. :-D
I don't think you know how government works either, just because someone is progressive doesn't mean they are communist.

The short answer to how walmart works is it destroys the economy in the surrounding area. It kills small businesses and eliminates income for people through monoplizing retail. It is capitalism, but, it's a shitty version of it. If you think you "NEED" walmart, btw, you have a bigger problem on your hands than worrying about annoying a forum with uneducated rants about government and groceries. Don't you have a place other than walmart to get food and things to survive on? I have about 4 or 5 food stores in a 3 mile radius from my house. There is even more clothes and other stores around. If you know anything about how to make capitalism work you would know that giving walmart all your business is bad.

mykcob4

Quote from: "Eve"
Quote from: "stromboli"
QuoteEqual rights is when everyone has a right to have marriage, for example. Nobody is denied of this right in USA.
But "marriage" and "gay marriage" is not equal. It is not the same. So, what kind equality are you talking about?
Marriage is a contract that specifies that two people are legally joined as heads of a family.
Marriage in the US and English speaking countries is defined by common law and the basis for inheritance rights. It has nothing to do with who has a penis and who has a vagina. It isn't about sanctifying reproductive rights. It is not based on the bible or any other spiritual entity. As such, gays are as entitled to be legally joined as heterosexual couples.
OK. And what is GAY marriage? Why do You add another word to word "marriage"? Isn't it for the purpose of making a some kind of DIFFERENCE?

Quote from: "stromboli"That is why our Supreme Court has not condemned gay marriage and why more and more states are allowing it.
I don't care about what Supreme Court did. Democracy is when people VOTE. And majority wins.
Democracy is not when the majority wins in this nation. The USA is a representative democracy and a nation of laws not men. That means that we elect representatives and the majority doesn't rule. That also means that individual civil rights are supreme and trump majority(mob) rule. When you say you don't care about the Supreme Court, you are saying that you don't care about civil rights, individual rights, or the rule of law.
Oh and by the way, Progressives are far different than communist. Progressives work for the freedom of oppertunity of an individual. Communist destroys individualism. So don't preach to me about politics because you are sorely wrong.

stromboli

What has your god-or any god- actually done? You can't prove god exists because there is no evidence. Every disease cured was cured by science, every dam built by engineers, every accomplishment and achievement by human effort. We celebrate what is obvious human achievement. You glorify an assumption.

Being civil? By coming on here, you effectively challenge our beliefs and are essentially calling us wrong or liars. This is our house, not yours. We'll be as civil as our judgment dictates. We didn't go to your house and start denouncing you, did we?

Your morality is based on a belief system. Other belief systems have different moralities. Ours is based on a commonality of understanding and about equal rights for people not based on assumed beliefs written down by Bronze Age sheep herders.

Progressives? Religion is the opposite of progress. Religion didn't expand the rights of man but suppressed it. Science and intellect aside from religion has moved mankind forward, enlightened us and made us more aware of ourselves and our world.

Your political kindred have denied global warming, the rights of women, civil liberties and all that is the progress of human understanding. Religion takes us backward to a more oppressive time, progress and progressives want to move mankind forward and rid us of the backward behavior religion demands.

mykcob4

Quote from: "Eve"
Quote from: "mykcob4"Gay marriage doesn't defy natural law. Marriage isn't natural.
Did I say that marriage defy natural law? when? Where?
 
Quote from: "mykcob4"Marriage is a manmade contract defining distribution of assets and nothing more you fucking idiot.
Can You be more civil AT LEAST? Did I ever told You that marriage is something more? But NOW I will tell You that it is more than that. Marriage is also a contract when both sides before witnesses PROMISE to be together in good times and bad times. They promise to love each other and  take care of each other.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Cats don't get married. Horses don't get married. There is nothing natural about it.
Again, I never said that marriage is a natural law. It is judicial law. God's laws for people are judicial laws.
Quote from: "mykcob4"No one is proposing that gay marraige will save the planet. It is simply respecting the individual rights of people and keeping assholes like YOU from ruling over thier individual rights.
Can You be AT LEAST more civil? Gosh.
Gay marriage is not the same as marriage. That is why You continue to say "GAY marriage". You all the time ADD another/extra word. To show some kind of DIFFERENCE. If You want to have something besides marriage - GAY marriage for example - vote for it. And let other people to do the same. Majority wins. This calls democracy. Progressives/communists don't like democracy? Of course they don't. Progressive/communists want to do what they think is right even though they always a MINORITY.
P.S. We can have marriages and  something different - gay marriages. But let MAJORITY decide what they want, NOT YOU.
Quote from: "mykcob4""Nothing will happen to this planet with overpopulation." You are oput of your mind. This planet can only sustain about 8 to 9 billion people at one time and that is if that population is completely cooperative and does things like reduce pollution. You are fucking dellussional!
what will happen to earth when we reach that number?

Quote from: "mykcob4"Don't worry about the ozone? How fucking stupid! The ozone protects us from radiation dumbass. You reduce the ozone by more than 7%, this planet becomes a burnt out molten rock GEESH!
Did I tell You that I don't know what ozone is? And how about NOT TO BELIEVE a false science? or You are one of those false prophets? I mean false scientist? :-D

Quote from: "mykcob4"Walmart, REALLY? Walmart promotes slave labor.
Wait when BIG BROTHER will become even bigger. Then You will know what real slavery is.
You MARKSIST!!!
  And what will You do without Walmarts? Produce Your own food? Produce Your own pants and shirts? Or You want to pay high prices?

Quote from: "mykcob4"Have you ever heard of the working poor?
Yes. I was one of them when progressives/communists like You were ruling in Soviet Union.
You want YUTOPIA? Well, I will dissapoint You. it is not REAL what You communist/progressive wish. Your "fair" society is MYTH, it is something that never existed, don't exist and will never exist.
If you take away Walmart and companies like Walmart your poor will become even more poor and You will have to produce EVERYTHING for Yourself by yourself. Is this what You wish   FOOL? Go to North Korea. You can have plenty of that.

Quote from: "mykcob4"Walmart employs people and pays them so poorly that they become the working poor.
They were already poor only without work. Walmart didn't make them poor. May be they were poor because THEY CHOSE not to graduate high school and not to go to college to become more rich? May be they were poor because they CHOSE to be drug addicts and couldn't become more productive? May be they were poor because they CHOSE not to learn English and get a better job? May be they were poor because they were not capable to do better?  

Quote from: "mykcob4"Walmart benefits noone,
not the cities that they don't pay taxes to,not the employees that they under pay, not the nations that manufacture goods for walmart, because Walmart pays so little for those goods that the factory workers are virtual slaves.
It benefits me when I need food or plastic wrap, or TV. I can not do it myself. I NEED Walmart FOR THAT.  :-D
Oh fuck you god's law ISN'T JUDICIAL LAW you utter moron. I won't be civil with a person that chooses to be an idiot and chooses an ideology that by its very nature is uncivil. Tea party really? That is what you think democracy is? You are sorely mistaken. First of all this nation was founded by Liberals and Proggressives. And it was founded on the principle of individual rights not any religious ideology. It was founded inspite of religious idolotry against conservatism and against divine providence you fucking fool.
I'm not a communist, nor a marxist. You have no idea what democracy is and you lack the understanding of what individual freedom is. Individual freedom is the basis of this nation of the type of government we have in this nation. It isn't majority rule, or mob rule or religiouds rule. Have you ever heard of seperation of church and state. That is a vital part of this nation. Heres a history lesson for you an American one:
The king of England was divine...chosen by god. He was the only person with individual rights. The colonies wanted self rule and self destiny. They revolted against the king's rule and rejected divinity. They established for the first time in human history that all people are equal that no king no god no person has dominion. You have no right to deny gays the right to marry. You have no right to deny anyone from marrying anyone they wish to. You are infringing on that persons individual rights and justifying it by saying that your god has a law against it. Well your god's law has NO authority. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and the Constitution's purpose is to protect individual freedom.
BTW I don't shop at Walmart or Sam's and never will. I pay fair prices for quality goods.
How do you know the history of every single individual that works for Walmart or works to make the goods sold at Walmart? You don't. You think people choose to be poor. You think that denying them oppertunity is what they choose in life? You're a complete moron.
Gay marraige is exactly the same as any other marraige. It is a contract between two individuals nothing more.
False science, false prophet?!!!! You're a fucking retard! I bet you don't believe in global warming even though it is a FACT! You still believe the world is flat and the planets revolve around the Earth, that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, and all the other hocus pocus crap that tea bagger morons believe.
I would love to meet you face to face to tell you how fucking stupid you really are. On second thought I don't want any sign of you, in person, on this forum, in MY country, on MY Earth, in MY solar system or this universe. Get fucked and go the fuck away.

FrogMan

Most of you have stepped in and crushed this terrible argument, but hey, I was called out, so here we go for old time's sake.  Probably done after this one.


Quote from: "Eve"
Quote from: "FrogMan"So gay marriage is wrong because god said "be fruitful and multiply"?
I didn't say that. Gay union contradicts natural law - reproduction of its own kind. PERIOD :-D

Homosexuality occurs naturally in species other than human beings.  Something being an anomaly statistically does not mean it is "unnatural" or contradicting some "natural law."  Plus, you're implying that everyone needs to reproduce.  As of right now, I don't want kids.  How am I different from a gay person getting married who doesn't?  Also, gay parents can also adopt.  And unwanted pregnancies and parentless children ARE real problems.

Again, this "natural law" makes more sense when there's eight people on the planet.  Please join us in 2013, things are much more complex.

Quote from: "Eve"
Quote from: "FrogMan"Have you seen how overpopulated this planet is?  How countries like China need a friggin' birth restriction because there's no room?
1)We don't need gay marriages to save this planet from overpopulation.
2)Don't worry, nothing will happen to this planet because of the overpopulation.
Quote from: "FrogMan"Yea, keep multiplying, humans.
Yea, that is why we(humans) have reproductive organs.  Are progressives(communists)  the ones who will decide what people of China have to do with their reproductive organs? Oh yes, of course they are. Communists(progressives) are the ones who want to give rights to us(humans). They always did.

1) My point was not that gay marriages will save the world.  Please stay on point.  This is about rights.
2) You're wrong.  If the world population keeps expanding at this pace, we're fucked.  But you're technically right...the planet will survive.  It will limp into the future without us, but....are we talking about making life better for humans?  I thought we were....OK.

As for your last point, not sure I understand what you're talking about with commies and progressives.  Is that what I am, I guess?  Anyway, yes I know what penises and vaginas are for.  This is horribly off topic.

Quote from: "Eve"
Quote from: "FrogMan"Keep chopping down those forests and killing that ozone.  We need that new Walmart soooo bad.    We definitely have this "multiply" concept down pat.
1)Don't worry it will be enough ozone for everyone.
2)New Walmart sounds good. More new jobs for those who need them.

1) Another terrible argument.  Is this because Jesus will fix everything?  Honestly, you know nothing about the effects of pollution on our planet.  We are doing damage, and if we continue to do so at this rate, we are in trouble.  Please Google once in a while about this subject.  I will not hold someone's hand through explaining why "Don't worry, there will be enough ozone for everyone" is not a sensible argument with the rate of population growth.  
2) You're missing the point of tongue-in-cheek comments.

Quote from: "Eve"
Quote from: "FrogMan"And we're doing a hell of a job feeding all those poor people
You don't like to feed poor people? Is this true face of progressives(communists)? Of course it is. Communists(progressives) don't care about poor people. They only claim they do when they need their vote.
How about You force those poor people not to reproduce? That is right solution for any communist/progressive. Why do progressives/communists hate us/humans?

What is this progressive/communist link?  And is this what I am?  All you know about me is that I think being against gay people's right to marry is wrong and that we should take care of the Earth.  That's it.  Not a thing more.  If this makes me a commie or a progressive in your eyes, know that you're going on that information and that information alone.

Quote from: "Eve"
Quote from: "FrogMan"Just don't let those queers live together with equal rights.
Equal rights is when everyone has a right to have marriage, for example. Nobody is denied of this right in USA.
But "marriage" and "gay marriage" is not equal. It is not the same. So, what kind equality are you talking about?

This is a theist's semantic game, and I'm not going to play it.  Ugh...so dishonest and intentionally headache-inducing.  You KNOW damn well that the only reason people say "gay marriage" instead of just "marriage" is because theists are fighting it.  It was called "WOMEN'S" suffrage and not just "suffrage" because women were the ones being denied their rights.  Same here.  If gay people were allowed to marry (see, I called it "marry," not "gay marry") it WOULD be equal to "regular" marriage.  

Come on, you know this.  I don't know why I came back here to debate with you.  Enjoy the rest of your short stay here at this site.  There's more than enough wolves here to feast on the bones of your weak arguments.  Good luck.
Quote from: \"Smartmarzipan\"Hey look, more people I want to stab in the throat.

Quote from: \"Damarcus\"Clearly, wicca is the ultimate belief system, I never heard of jesus making someone\'s xbox get fixed slightly faster.

"Why we still got monkeys?" - Steve Harvey

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: "Eve"I take Your civility because I think You like to be civil. Because I believe that it is natural for You. Am I wrong? Please, tell me that I am wrong. :)
Yes, you are wrong. I treat people with the civility I think they deserve, unless I'm intentionally being civil for the purpose of my own amusement. Usually, people deserve at least neutral respect. You, however, have proven yourself to be a complete and utter dunce when it comes to the most basic principles of science, regardless of any training you claim to have. You also have a complete disregard for understanding atheists, preferring to thrust your own morality upon us in conversation. You did not come to this forum to discuss anything. You came here to proselytize your religion, just like all the others. I warned you in my first post on your introduction: Besides you, there is only one theist here who has not left or been banned, and he's called mediumaevum. You see, mediumaevum actually came here to talk rather than proselytize, and despite our disagreements I've found him to be a rather nice fellow to talk to. Interestingly, he is a deist. "Interestingly," because his is the only theistic viewpoint that doesn't seem hell-bent on pushing itself on other people. You are nothing like him, though, and you will probably be gone by the end of the week at the rate you're going.

So to you I say: Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, you poor, deluded fool.
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

Eve

Quote from: "mykcob4"Democracy is not when the majority wins in this nation. The USA is a representative democracy and a nation of laws not men. That means that we elect representatives and the majority doesn't rule. That also means that individual civil rights are supreme and trump majority(mob) rule. When you say you don't care about the Supreme Court, you are saying that you don't care about civil rights, individual rights, or the rule of law.
I care about all those things. I don't believe in mob rule. But I believe that people should vote on gay marriage.  Mob rule is when progressives make me buy what I don't want to buy. This is MOB RULE!!  
Quote from: "mykcob4"Oh and by the way, Progressives are far different than communist. Progressives work for the freedom of oppertunity of an individual. Communist destroys individualism. So don't preach to me about politics because you are sorely wrong.
communists say:  Progressives destroy individualism but communism gives freedom and best opportunity. I am not buying your preaching about how wonderful progressives work is.
Obama's website is evidence of  how progressives do their work. By the way communists are not better. Everything in their hands gets ruined.

FrogMan

Quote from: "Eve"communists say:  Progressives destroy individualism but communism gives freedom and best opportunity. I am not buying your preaching about how wonderful progressives work is.
Obama's website is evidence of  how progressives do their work. By the way communists are not better. Everything in their hands gets ruined.

Holy babble, do you mods see this?  Obama and commies and progressives, oh my!  

I feel dirty for taking part in this slaughtering.  Obvious troll is obvious.

Ban hammer coming in 3......2......1......
Quote from: \"Smartmarzipan\"Hey look, more people I want to stab in the throat.

Quote from: \"Damarcus\"Clearly, wicca is the ultimate belief system, I never heard of jesus making someone\'s xbox get fixed slightly faster.

"Why we still got monkeys?" - Steve Harvey

The Skeletal Atheist

Jesus fuckin Christ, Eve, let me explain this whole "gay marriage" thing to you:

1. It is called gay marriage not because it is different from straight marriage, but because "gay" is a qualifying word describing the nature of the marriage. In time, once gays have fully equal rights, it will increasingly be called just "marriage". There use to be a time that the phrase "interacial marriage" was used because interacial couples didn't have the same rights as couples of the same race. Now that term is only really used when describing segragation. Some bigots still use it as well, but all normal people call a modern interacial marraige just a marriage.

2. Marriage, in terms of US law and in terms of what equality advocates are fighting for, is a CIVIL contract between two parties. Religious marriage is another matter entirely, and no one is fighting for the right to be married in your bigoted churches. There are still some small churches in the south that will refuse to marry mixed race couples - it is their right to do so because the nature of the marriage is religious. A county clerk, however, cannot refuse to marry a mixed race couple because that is a CIVIL marriage. We are not fighting for the right to be married in your bigoted churches - there are several churchs that will readily marry same sex couples, we are simply fighting for the right to have a civil marriage.

3. It is none of your goddamn business whether or not 2 people enter into a civil contract - seperation of church and state and all that. Your religion does not get to trump my rights just because you find it oh so special. I don't care what they may teach in your church, they can say I'm an abomination that deserves death, but that doesn't mean they get to dictact my life.

4. You want small government? Fine - get the government out of my ability to enter into a contract. I'm a sober adult with no mental issues that would exempt me from entering into any other contract, get them out of my ability to enter into a marriage contract. Until then you have no business claiming you want a small government - you just want to government out of your business and into mine.

5. Sorry, but you don't get to vote on other people's civil rights. There's this little thing called "tyranny of the majority" that our founding fathers didn't want, which is why we have a constition instead of a piece of paper that says "MOB MENTALITY RULES LOLZ!!!!!1!!!11!!!!one" as our founding document. At a time the majority didn't want women or blacks to vote. The majority at one time didn't want mixed race couples to be able to marry. The day you get to vote on my civil rights is the day I get to vote on what they teach in your church.
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!

Eve

Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"
Quote from: "Eve"I take Your civility because I think You like to be civil. Because I believe that it is natural for You. Am I wrong? Please, tell me that I am wrong. :)
Yes, you are wrong. I treat people with the civility I think they deserve, unless I'm intentionally being civil for the purpose of my own amusement.
Typical communist thinking. I am not surprised. Communist/progressive decides ho deserves what and uses while claiming he is for freedom an opportunities for others.
You decided what I deserve ad forced on me your uncivility. It is pure evil. :twisted:
Quote from: "mykcob4"Usually, people deserve at least neutral respect.
'
Oh, Great Master, you are so kind.
Quote from: "mykcob4"You, however, have proven yourself to be a complete and utter dunce when it comes to the most basic principles of science, regardless of any training you claim to have. You also have a complete disregard for understanding atheists, preferring to thrust your own morality upon us in conversation. You did not come to this forum to discuss anything. You came here to proselytize your religion, just like all the others.
really? and what is my religion?

Quote from: "mykcob4"I warned you in my first post on your introduction: Besides you, there is only one theist here who has not left or been banned, and he's called mediumaevum. You see, mediumaevum actually came here to talk rather than proselytize, and despite our disagreements I've found him to be a rather nice fellow to talk to. Interestingly, he is a deist. "Interestingly," because his is the only theistic viewpoint that doesn't seem hell-bent on pushing itself on other people. You are nothing like him, though, and you will probably be gone by the end of the week at the rate you're going.[/.quote]
I agreed to be polite on this forum to others. I keep my word. You don't.

Quote from: "mykcob4"So to you I say: Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, you poor, deluded fool.
Read the rules, my friend. Keep your agreement. civil person is always civil person. You are not civil person.
RELAX, my friend. :-D

Plu


The Skeletal Atheist

Quote from: "Plu"Stop feeding the trolls gentlemen :)
But I need a chew toy!
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!

PickelledEggs

Quote from: "Plu"Stop feeding the trolls gentlemen :)

I think my troll radar needs calibrating...  :lol:

The Skeletal Atheist

Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"Jesus fuckin Christ, Eve, let me explain this whole "gay marriage" thing to you:

1. It is called gay marriage not because it is different from straight marriage, but because "gay" is a qualifying word describing the nature of the marriage. In time, once gays have fully equal rights, it will increasingly be called just "marriage". There use to be a time that the phrase "interacial marriage" was used because interacial couples didn't have the same rights as couples of the same race. Now that term is only really used when describing segragation. Some bigots still use it as well, but all normal people call a modern interacial marraige just a marriage.

2. Marriage, in terms of US law and in terms of what equality advocates are fighting for, is a CIVIL contract between two parties. Religious marriage is another matter entirely, and no one is fighting for the right to be married in your bigoted churches. There are still some small churches in the south that will refuse to marry mixed race couples - it is their right to do so because the nature of the marriage is religious. A county clerk, however, cannot refuse to marry a mixed race couple because that is a CIVIL marriage. We are not fighting for the right to be married in your bigoted churches - there are several churchs that will readily marry same sex couples, we are simply fighting for the right to have a civil marriage.

3. It is none of your goddamn business whether or not 2 people enter into a civil contract - seperation of church and state and all that. Your religion does not get to trump my rights just because you find it oh so special. I don't care what they may teach in your church, they can say I'm an abomination that deserves death, but that doesn't mean they get to dictact my life.

4. You want small government? Fine - get the government out of my ability to enter into a contract. I'm a sober adult with no mental issues that would exempt me from entering into any other contract, get them out of my ability to enter into a marriage contract. Until then you have no business claiming you want a small government - you just want to government out of your business and into mine.

5. Sorry, but you don't get to vote on other people's civil rights. There's this little thing called "tyranny of the majority" that our founding fathers didn't want, which is why we have a constition instead of a piece of paper that says "MOB MENTALITY RULES LOLZ!!!!!1!!!11!!!!one" as our founding document. At a time the majority didn't want women or blacks to vote. The majority at one time didn't want mixed race couples to be able to marry. The day you get to vote on my civil rights is the day I get to vote on what they teach in your church.
Reposting so I may get a response.
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!