Author Topic: Veteran's Day  (Read 7363 times)

Offline Solitary

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2013, 03:29:22 PM »
War is hell on earth for too many men and women. Fuck the politicians who sit home and make money with the war machine and their lies. And to hell with all the religious leaders that support them and think it is glorious to sacrifice ones self for idealism. This is why, and doesn't even touch the horror of war, and the innocent lives sacrificed for politician's lies:


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21134540/vp=5 ... &#53519638   :roll:  :evil:  Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2013, 05:15:55 PM »
I for one appreciate what our vets have gone through, the many who died, or come back with PTSD, injured, etc.

and then they get treated like crap by our government. both from sending them to dumb wars that shouldn't be fought, and by doing things like cutting benefits to help vets get medical care, food, home, mental care, etc.

I think folks can go too far, but I think its nice to at least pause and think about it, and be grateful to the folks who gave their lives, or lost limbs or lost their mind so we could be free.

come to think of it maybe we need less parades and fancy talk and more action to help our vets. less politicians using them as political props and more politicians actually standing up for them.

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Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2013, 07:46:23 PM »
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Offline Solitary

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2013, 09:11:06 PM »
Quote from: "hillbillyatheist"
I for one appreciate what our vets have gone through, the many who died, or come back with PTSD, injured, etc.

and then they get treated like crap by our government. both from sending them to dumb wars that shouldn't be fought, and by doing things like cutting benefits to help vets get medical care, food, home, mental care, etc.

I think folks can go too far, but I think its nice to at least pause and think about it, and be grateful to the folks who gave their lives, or lost limbs or lost their mind so we could be free.

come to think of it maybe we need less parades and fancy talk and more action to help our vets. less politicians using them as political props and more politicians actually standing up for them.

Writer posted a YouTube video



"so we could be free." You really believe our men and women are fighting now for "our" freedom or anyone else's. Let's go after China and North Korea, and many people in Africa who aren't free next so we can have more pictures like this  for "our" freedom:     Both pictures were done because of politicians' desires in this country, and had nothing to do with out freedom or ending a war. We have less freedom now from our own government since Cheney and Bush told the biggest lie in history and now we have even more terrorists because of our government and its war machine. War is a big money maker for those who have stock in it like Halliburton that used to be run by Cheney.  Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2013, 09:46:43 PM »
All war is over money and power, NOT yours nor my freedom. Freedom sounds all warm and fuzzy, but there's little basis of truth there. Bush famously said, 'They hate freedom.' Personally I know of nobody who hates freedom.
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Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2013, 10:21:52 PM »
I don't think iraq and such are for freedom. notice I mention stupid wars.

but take WWII. you think if America had just tried to sing "Give Peace a Chance" to hitler that we could have avoided that war?
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Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2013, 10:32:37 PM »
WWII was also a money/power grab. Nobody was singing John Lenon songs at that time and the US didn't join that war till later after most of Europe had already fallen and it wasn't for 'our' freedom.
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Offline Shiranu

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2013, 10:39:29 PM »
I fully support the troops and their reasons for joining the military (both ethical/philosophical [protecting one's country/family/it's the right thing] or economic [it is a way to make money]).

That said, I am very opposed to their job and the institution built around it. I am not afraid to say I fully am against the jobs they did, even though I get some real shit from my family for it. They don't seem to grasp that, "Hey, you invaded a foreign country that did nothing to us and turned the place to even more shit than it was... I don't like that." doesn't mean, "Fuck the troops.".

The military is opposite to my ethics, my political stances (That we should spend money on our people rather than a corporations bombs) and I just don't see a reason to celebrate it.

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2013, 10:46:26 PM »
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
WWII was also a money/power grab.

It was a money/power grab for Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Hirohito.  I don't think it reasonably could be construed as a power/money grab by Churchill, Roosevelt, and Daladier.  If that's what they wanted they could have worked out a deal to carve up the spoils with Germany and Japan in exchange for staying out of the war the way Stalin did before Hitler turned on him.  Germany and Japan certainly tried to entice the Western democracies with exactly that, but it didn't work.
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Offline stromboli

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2013, 10:54:50 PM »
As I mentioned in the OP, the majority of people who join the military do it to improve their life situation or get an education. GI bill paid for my degree, at least in part. Both my sons joined for that reason. They are both career military through their own choice- they got what they wanted and stayed in. One has seen heavy combat on 3 tours, the other never got near a combat zone and is now a recruiter. Both are senior noncoms, one a decorated First Sergeant, the other a 1st Class Petty Officer.

The vast majority of people who join don't do it to become John Wayne stereotyped gunslingers. I myself served in a cold war that never theoretically fired a shot, yet was the longest and costliest war in our history. The irony is that the cold war was won more for economic reasons than military- we kept upping the ante until the Soviets collapsed economically. Good ol' Capitalism was our best weapon.

I respect people who served their nation, my family certainly has. But I put it in perspective. To glorify war in any aspect and not understand the underlying power struggle among nations and economies is foolish. Respect the veterans, but never respect the wars they fought in.

Offline Shiranu

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2013, 10:56:10 PM »
Quote from: "aileron"
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
WWII was also a money/power grab.

It was a money/power grab for Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Hirohito.  I don't think it reasonably could be construed as a power/money grab by Churchill, Roosevelt, and Daladier.  If that's what they wanted they could have worked out a deal to carve up the spoils with Germany and Japan in exchange for staying out of the war the way Stalin did before Hitler turned on him.  Germany and Japan certainly tried to entice the Western democracies with exactly that, but it didn't work.

I don't know enough about it during the war, but the whole start of WW2 was a money/power grab by the Western powers saying that Germany had to pay exorbitant reparations that destroyed the German economy.

I would also argue late WW2 was a bit of a power grab by the U.S. to secure any territory that could possibly fall under communistic regimes and to expand their empire.

Offline Solitary

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2013, 10:59:47 PM »
Quote from: "hillbillyatheist"
I don't think iraq and such are for freedom. notice I mention stupid wars.

but take WWII. you think if America had just tried to sing "Give Peace a Chance" to hitler that we could have avoided that war?
 


I did notice you said "stupid wars"---aren't they all stupid wars? Going into that war was justified because Hitler was invading other countries and coming here next. That is a no different than what we and England did in the Middle East, and we did in Korea (where we still have troops) and Vietnam and other countries for "our" freedom. An ideology cannot be destroyed by war anymore than religion can unless there is not one single enemy that is not killed. When a country invades another country it is wrong for many reasons.

That is why there is a United Nations to stop countries from invading other countries. But dropping an atomic bomb on two Japanese cites with civilians like we did is the same or even worst than what Hitler did for no strategic reasons since the Japanese military was already defeated. I remember you from way back when, and I really don't mean to upset you if I am.  :wink:  These are just my opinions, or not. Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2013, 11:06:28 PM »
I don't get offended by people disagreeing with me. its cool.

the atom bomb was wrong. I've learned they were already wanting to surrender but truman wanted to show the russians our new toy. so yeah we suck too.

but I still think that because other people suck too, that having a military is necessary to protect our freedom. even if they're are abused by the elite, the simple fact is if we didn't have a military, we'd get invaded by other shitbags wanting our resources.  They don't fuck with us because they know they'd get their clocks cleaned.

so its not false to say that the military keeps us free, even if its true that our elite are shitheads too, and many of our wars weren't necessary.
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Offline stromboli

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2013, 11:07:30 PM »
My father fought in World War One, the "war to end all wars" which it should have been. 20 million dead, yet only a run up to WW2. He went there in a patriotic fervor, a healthy young athletic man who came back wasted after surviving 7 gas attacks, which left him with horrific asthma and unable to ever support the family of eight children his long suffering wife raised. That is a side of war everyone should see.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Veteran's Day
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2013, 11:24:18 PM »
Suffice it to say Veterans day has become more an advertising slogan almost as much as Xmas and it's a shame because it was Armistice day before being known as veterans day. It seems this nation, the US seems in love with bullshit hero worship and the more violent the better. The date, November 11 is significant because the armistice was signed on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, but the 11th hour now is more known for Washington bullshit than anthing else..
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