Author Topic: Proof That God Exists  (Read 2815 times)

Offline Solitary (OP)

Proof That God Exists
« on: October 30, 2013, 09:17:18 PM »
This is the flaw---theorems and axioms cannot be proven just because they can be expressed as mathematical equations because they are assumptions. It's also a non sequitur in logic.Just because it is new doesn't automatically make it prove anything about the truth.This is a conjecture and not a scientific theory! which essentially says that a higher being must exist if people believe He does. So there you are---unicorns, flying saucers, all the gods of history, all the stories in Scripture, astrology all are facts now since there are people that believe they are true. :roll: Though the mathematics are much more complex, God exists as a concept, than he can exist in reality. So every concept anyone has, even the insane, actually exists. Is there any kind of logic that is dumber than this? Yes, they exist, in a persons mind, that doesn't mean it exists outside of it in the world of reality we live in. All this so-called proof of God shows is that the belief in God is imaginary and a delusional belief. It actually proves God or gods don't exist accept in people's minds.  :roll:  :lol:
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Offline aitm

Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2013, 09:46:05 PM »
the obvious of course is "which god is proven" and the answer of course is "none of them". I would like to suggest my answer to this conundrum to the xian argument. They would hold to the principle that no greater can be conceived. However the simplicity of the counter argument is often overlooked. We CAN conceive of a greater. How? BY a god that is NOT jealous, NOT envious, NOT angry, NOT homophobic. Why do humans champion the behavior in a god that we detest in human behavior? Because we think that because humans are "flawed" a god has a right to be all the lesser of human behavior, which is the best reason that a god is not a god.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Plu

Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 03:13:20 AM »
Even beyond conceiving of better gods than any of the currently known ones, it's perfectly possible to conceive of things that cannot possibly exist in reality that are still greater than any current understanding of god.

I do not understand how something that is by definition limited by the laws of reality could be the greatest conceivable thing, when there is a huge playing field where we aren't bothered by silly laws of reality to conceive things in.

Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 06:16:13 AM »
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


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tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Offline josephpalazzo

Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 09:10:06 AM »
All Godel's theorem says is that a given mathematical system is based on a number of axioms, that is, statements that are given as true, or so called unproven truths. If one wants to prove any of those unproven truths then one must enlarge the systen with new, unproven truths. Therefore, no mathematical system is ever complete.

Now, this is about mathematical systems, not life, not the universe, and therefore, to go from this to prove the existence of God is utterly ridiculous.

Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 12:00:21 PM »
Quote from: "Solitary"
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room! -- President Merkin Muffley

My mom was a religious fundamentalist. Plus, she didn't have a mouth. It's an unusual combination. -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 12:57:19 PM »
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"
All Godel's theorem says is that a given mathematical system is based on a number of axioms, that is, statements that are given as true, or so called unproven truths. If one wants to prove any of those unproven truths then one must enlarge the systen with new, unproven truths. Therefore, no mathematical system is ever complete.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del ... ical_proof

Quote from: "josephpalazzo"
Now, this is about mathematical systems, not life, not the universe, and therefore, to go from this to prove the existence of God is utterly ridiculous.

Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 01:04:50 PM »
Quote from: "aileron"
Quote from: "Solitary"

Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 01:47:18 PM »
Quote from: "aitm"
the obvious of course is "which god is proven" and the answer of course is "none of them". I would like to suggest my answer to this conundrum to the xian argument. They would hold to the principle that no greater can be conceived. However the simplicity of the counter argument is often overlooked. We CAN conceive of a greater. How? BY a god that is NOT jealous, NOT envious, NOT angry, NOT homophobic. Why do humans champion the behavior in a god that we detest in human behavior? Because we think that because humans are "flawed" a god has a right to be all the lesser of human behavior, which is the best reason that a god is not a god.

On top of the "which god" they are still stuck with infinite regress.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers." Obama
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Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2013, 06:23:17 PM »
Quote from: "Solitary"
in essence the Austrian was arguing that, by definition, God is that for which no greater can be conceived. And while God exists in the understanding of the concept, we could conceive of him as greater if he existed in reality. Therefore, he must exist.

I utterly fail to grasp how the above works. However:

Quote from: "josephpalazzo"
All Godel's theorem says is that a given mathematical system is based on a number of axioms, that is, statements that are given as true, or so called unproven truths. If one wants to prove any of those unproven truths then one must enlarge the systen with new, unproven truths. Therefore, no mathematical system is ever complete.

Now, this is about mathematical systems, not life, not the universe, and therefore, to go from this to prove the existence of God is utterly ridiculous.

This makes it somewhat more lucid to me.

Gerard
The Historical Atlas of Europe
But as man exists in nature, I am not authorized to say that his formation, is above the power of nature.
Paul Henri Thiry Baron d' Holbach, (1723-1789)


Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2013, 10:34:03 PM »
Quote
Translation:

Quote
Thank you for this interesting information. As the asserted itself Van Gogh: " Do not forget that the small emotions are the great captains of our lives and that has those-the we obey without knowing it. "


Welcome. You might want to try using a translator if you want to be taken seriously.

Offline frosty

Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2013, 03:31:46 AM »
So, essentially, this formula was for making scientific processes easier, and some people made a claim that this proves the existence of god? But couldn't I hypothetically make a formula and claim the same thing, or even the opposite? Hasn't it already been established across the board that numbers and mathematics only has significance if we choose to assign value to those specific numbers and formula? In that case, someone made up a formula, knowing that, just to say "this is proof god exists"? It sounds to me like something a 4 year old kid would do.

Offline josephpalazzo

Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2013, 08:34:31 AM »
Quote from: "Jaded"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

[ Imagehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Anthony_Anderson

Just to prove the point that anyone can copy/paste,  :twisted: :

Quote

Offline frosty

Re: Proof That God Exists
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2013, 03:49:54 AM »
I would appreciate if someone were to answer the other post I had in this thread. I want to know if I got it all wrong or if what I said is really what is going on here. If what I said truly applies here than that is a childish and disgraceful misuse of mathematics.