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Capital Punishment

Started by dgirl1986, October 22, 2013, 08:16:19 PM

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dgirl1986

I always wonder about "lawful" executions and capital punishment in general. We do not have it here which may be why I find it hard to wrap my head around it.

Do people see it as moral or ethical? I have heard reports of communities in the US celebrating over how many people have been executed under capital punishment laws. This seems a risky way to carry out justice in my point of view. If you make a mistake and execute an innocent party, you cannot undo it. How is that right? And who decides which crimes are punishable by death?

GrinningYMIR

The death penalty has and always will be a controversial thing in the United States. For many years people have combated it based on grounds that it is nothing other than the state exercising form of legal murder. And there have been more than a few innocent people executed unfortunately; which has lead to many states abolishing it completely, preferring to use alternative methods for their most dangerous criminals.  

Many people do not see it as ethical, because of several reasons including but not limited to

-it makes us too much like the criminal in question
-it is too easy a system to corrupt
-is it morally right for us to kill a person, regardless of their crime?

As for who decides whether or not a person dies; it is either a jury that gives him the death penalty, or it is a judge or committee that decides, depending on the crime. Mass homicide is usually enough to get one on death row, which is basically a supposed waiting list for the criminal's demise. Other things such as war crimes or treason can also lead to the death penalty being thrown at the party in question, but treason is usually handled by the military and as such is different from the "civil" death penalty.

The military has the right to exercise and has used this right in the past; to kill soldiers for a number of crimes, including insubordination, dereliction of duty, desertion, and treason. This is decided by a military tribunal and is done most of the time via firing squad. Obviously this practice has been greatly reduced since the Second World War, but still happens occasionally.

Now if you're wanting to know whether or not we as individuals believe in it, it depends on the person to be honest.

I hope this helps
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"<br /><br />Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Mermaid

Quote from: "dgirl1986"I always wonder about "lawful" executions and capital punishment in general. We do not have it here which may be why I find it hard to wrap my head around it.

Do people see it as moral or ethical? I have heard reports of communities in the US celebrating over how many people have been executed under capital punishment laws. This seems a risky way to carry out justice in my point of view. If you make a mistake and execute an innocent party, you cannot undo it. How is that right? And who decides which crimes are punishable by death?
I see it as absolutely immoral and unethical as well as inefficient and unjust. And that would be my opinion if there was an absolute guarantee that only guilty parties would be executed.

It makes me sick to my stomach to think about it.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

aitm

I see no use of keeping something alive that has no qualms with raping/sodomizing and butchering another human into pieces. I am all for running their brain through whatever thinga-ma-jig you wish and then throwing it into a pen of very hungry hogs.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Hydra009

Quote from: "dgirl1986"Do people see it as moral or ethical? I have heard reports of communities in the US celebrating over how many people have been executed under capital punishment laws.
As the sole or heavily outnumbered dissenting party in meatspace capital punishment debates, yes, they do see it as moral.  They see it as richly deserved and regret only that the actual execution takes place years later, if at all.

QuoteThis seems a risky way to carry out justice in my point of view. If you make a mistake and execute an innocent party, you cannot undo it. How is that right?
I agree.

QuoteAnd who decides which crimes are punishable by death?
Congress, iirc.  And then state prosecutors decide to seek the death penalty or not to on an individual basis.

mykcob4

Quote from: "dgirl1986"I always wonder about "lawful" executions and capital punishment in general. We do not have it here which may be why I find it hard to wrap my head around it.

Do people see it as moral or ethical? I have heard reports of communities in the US celebrating over how many people have been executed under capital punishment laws. This seems a risky way to carry out justice in my point of view. If you make a mistake and execute an innocent party, you cannot undo it. How is that right? And who decides which crimes are punishable by death?
Capitol punishment is just revenge and nothing more. Unfortunately here in the USA people relish revenge. Most don't care if an innocent person is executed or not. Statistically minorities and the poor are executed at a far greater percentage then any other demographic, and that sits well with the racist conservatives in this nation.

aitm

Quote from: "mykcob4"
Quote from: "dgirl1986"I always wonder about "lawful" executions and capital punishment in general. We do not have it here which may be why I find it hard to wrap my head around it.
Most don't care if an innocent person is executed or not.

"Most" time mykcob4 is fairly close to somewhat of the truth, and then sometimes he opens his hole and shit falls out as is the case this time.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Shiranu

I don't think the average Joe cares if some random black guy in Alabama or Georgia is executed, even though the witnesses said it wasn't him and there is other evidence of bias amongst the jury, judge and officers who responded.

This was national news as well and yet there wasn't much outrage... a few hundred thousand out of millions and millions of people. So yeah, I would say we don't particularly care.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

EntirelyOfThisWorld

It is the result of a public which in large part does not recognise the difference between justice and vengence.  The first is hard to acheave, the second is easy.
Freedom is Free.  It\'s included in Democracy.  Democracy is Hard.  It involves coexisting with people who think that sayings like "Freedom is not Free" actually makes some kind of sense.

Solitary

I don't believe there is such a thing as justice, only injustice. What we call justice is retribution not justice. How about the loved ones of the person executed? Is it justice when they are hurt by a draconian punishment because of feelings and emotions. Shouldn't the law be about protecting society instead of revenge. If it was my family that was a victim of a Haines crime I would want revenge also, but should a non entity do what I would do? And how about unjust laws that punish people where there's no victim that over fill our prisons and killers and rapist are let go.
 
Two wrongs do not make a right logically in my opinion. How many guilty people are let go that do a crime that can be punishable by death because a jury doesn't want to be killers? How many are let go because they are rich and can hire unscrupulous lawyers that will win at any cost instead of finding the truth? How about people wrongly accused, is it alright to kill them or put them in prison for life with no chance to get out---it could happen to you or your loved ones---where's the justice there?   Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Shiranu

To put my opinion out there, I don't think mentally ill people should be murdered just because they are sick. This rules out most of the sickos from being executed.

The rest who commit murder and other violent acts do it because of their situation, which is outside of their control. Therefor I don't think they deserve to be executed either, because it could have just as easily been me who had been born in their situation.

People should pay the consequences of their crime, but I think there is an inherently flawed aspect to the idea that the only way to punish someone for killing is to kill them. Rehabilitation is the only morally justifiable response, and if that fails then humane containment to keep them from harming others. But violence does not solve violence.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Valigarmander

I suppose I don't have a problem with the state ending the life of a serial killer or rapist. I would still like to see capital punishment abolished, because:

- Innocent people have been executed. An innocent man in jail can be released and compensated. An innocent man executed can never be brought back.
- There is bias in the system (for example, blacks are executed at a higher rate and for lesser crimes than whites), though this is a problem with the justice system as a whole.
- Having a person on death row costs tax payers more than having a person jailed for life, due to additional investigation expenses, appeals, and the execution itself.
- There's no solid evidence that the death penalty does anything to deter the crimes that are punishable by it.

There are far too few benefits to capital punishment to offset these issues. We'd be better off as a society without it.

mediumaevum

I am against Capital Punishment, and I really don't care wether or not the inmate is innocent or not.

I am against Capital Punishment, on grounds of ethics, pure and simple. I believe that every man, woman and child, should be treated decently in accordance with basic human needs, such as safety, security and tranquility. Capital Punishment is quite the opposite. I believe that assisted suicide or euthanasia, if voluntary, should be in order for everyone, especially inmates, but they should have all possible available alternatives to choose life instead of their own death.

This is regardless of wether they were thieves, serial killers or dictators who committed mass murders.
We gain NOTHING from punishing them.

With that said, I must also confess that at times and moments, I sincerely believe that people who have done nothing wrong, except for having different political opinions than my own,
should be executed by strangulation in a garrotte while being burned at the stake after being tortured. But that's a moment caused by my anger and powerlessness and tells nothing about my true political opinions on the subject of Capital Punishment, when I'm totally sane.

I will not be sane if someone killed a loved one of mine.

But while writing this, I'm totally sane, and I know I can't watch an execution, therefore I can't be for Capital Punishment.

I also believe that inmates should recieve careful mental assessment and given psychiatric and/or psychological treatment.
If they are a danger to society or to others or in any other way cannot or will not function as a non-criminal, they should be locked away in a secure facility, but they should be
treated decently and with respect to their basic human needs.

I myself live in a country where Capital Punishment was abolished long time ago and I am not a criminal.
Yet, I get suicidal feelings whenever I watch or read about an execution. I am totally scared of being
executed myself (I can't say why). Therefore, it would be wrong for me to fall for the double standard of being for capital punishment, when I, myself, am scared of being executed myself.

Aupmanyav

Quote from: "Hydra009"
Quote from: "dgirl1986"Do people see it as moral or ethical? I have heard reports of communities in the US celebrating over how many people have been executed under capital punishment laws.
As the sole or heavily outnumbered dissenting party in meatspace capital punishment debates, yes, they do see it as moral.  They see it as richly deserved and regret only that the actual execution takes place years later, if at all.
I agree. And in India they are awarded to 'rarest or rare', to the very brutal rapes or murders.
Quote from: "Hydra009"
Quote from: "dgirl1986"This seems a risky way to carry out justice in my point of view. If you make a mistake and execute an innocent party, you cannot undo it. How is that right?
I agree.
In India it goes through a long process, District Courts, State Court, Supreme Court, and lastly President's pardon. I do not think there are mistakes.
Quote from: "Hydra009"
Quote from: "dgirl1986"And who decides which crimes are punishable by death?
Congress, iirc.  And then state prosecutors decide to seek the death penalty or not to on an individual basis.
The National Parliament, a democratically elected body in a free and fair election of peoples' representatives under universal franchise from many parties (6 National Parties, 45 State parties, and 1389 registered unrecognized parties) held regularly for the last 63 years (now on electronic voting machines all over the country, even the most isolated places, where the election officers reach by riding elephants), by a majority vote. Then it goes to Supreme Court for a check that it does not violate Indian constitution in any way. Lastly, it goes to the President for approval.
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)

Plu

QuoteIn India it goes through a long process, District Courts, State Court, Supreme Court, and lastly President's pardon. I do not think there are mistakes.

There are always mistakes.