What if You Are Wrong? Aren't You Afraid of Hell? Fallacy!

Started by Solitary, October 01, 2013, 11:49:44 PM

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Solitary

QuoteOne common logical fallacy is argumentum ad baculum, which literally translated means "argument to the stick" and which is commonly translated to mean "appeal to force." With this fallacy, an argument is accompanied by the threat of violence if the conclusions are not accepted. Many religions are based upon just such an tactic: if you don't accept this religion, you will be punished either by adherents now or in some afterlife. If this is how a religion treats its own adherents, it's not a surprise that arguments employing this tactic or fallacy are offered to nonbelievers as a reason to convert.
Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Hijiri Byakuren

Am I the only one who thinks a lot of theists don't think through the existence of their particular Hell very well? I mean think about it: the choices offered by your chosen deity are "obey me" and "eternal torture." Would Heaven really be any less oppressive than Hell?

The nice thing about the real world is that there are no supernatural dictators to worry about.
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

LikelyToBreak

Well, I'm doomed anyway.  Having been married and all.

QuoteNew International Version (NIV)
Revelation 14:1-5

Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

While I don't have anything against gays and all, heaven sounds a little too queer for my tastes.  Hope they enjoy it, because I like defiling myself with women.  As far as the Islamic heaven, my 72 virgins would probably be old Catholic nuns who wouldn't want to do anything anyway.  (Yeah, I stole that from Mr. Deity. Sue me.)  So, hell here I come!  At least maybe I can lucky down there.

billhilly


Poison Tree

Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Am I the only one who thinks a lot of theists don't think through the existence of their particular Hell very well? I mean think about it: the choices offered by your chosen deity are "obey me" and "eternal torture." Would Heaven really be any less oppressive than Hell?

The nice thing about the real world is that there are no supernatural dictators to worry about.
Wasn't it Hitchens who referred to a celestial North Korea?
"Observe that noses were made to wear spectacles; and so we have spectacles. Legs were visibly instituted to be breeched, and we have breeches" Voltaire�s Candide

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: "Poison Tree"
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Am I the only one who thinks a lot of theists don't think through the existence of their particular Hell very well? I mean think about it: the choices offered by your chosen deity are "obey me" and "eternal torture." Would Heaven really be any less oppressive than Hell?

The nice thing about the real world is that there are no supernatural dictators to worry about.
Wasn't it Hitchens who referred to a celestial North Korea?
Wouldn't know. I'm not as up on my Hitchens as I could be.
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

LikelyToBreak

Poison Tree, I'm pretty sure you are correct.  But, I can't remember where I actually heard him say it.

It's appropriate rather Hitchens said it or not.

Youssuf Ramadan

"Hello Grandma. Hello Granddad. Hello uncle who touched me... how did you get in here?  Oh yeah... you worked for the church...."

Jim Jefferies

 :lol:

MrsSassyPants

It's wonderful the many ways in which Christianity, and any religion for that matter, can be proven fucking retarded.
If you don't chew big red then FUCK YOU!

FrankDK

It's also a faulty dilemma (either their version of their god exists, or no god at all does).

And a problem of volunteerism (can you believe in something not supported by evidence just because there might be some utility in it?).

And it requires a very stupid god, since a smart one would know that people are only pretending to believe to get into Heaven.

Frank

AllPurposeAtheist

Accept brussel sprouts as the divine vegetable or burn for eternity. That doesn't mean you have to like them, just never speak wrongly of brussel sprouts because if you do I might kill you and send you to brussel sprout hell where the ONLY food is brussel sprouts. :evil:
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

MrsSassyPants

If you don't chew big red then FUCK YOU!

entropy

Suppose some random guy somewhere said, "If you don't believe blue is the best color, you will be damned in hell forever." Why would it be so easy for people to dismiss that threat and not the threat of eternal damnation if you don't believe in the Christian God? There is no logical reason to take any more seriously "believe in Christian God or you will be eternally damned" than "believe blue is the best color or you will be eternally damned". The only reason to take the Christian threat more seriously in terms of calculated risk is if you are emotionally predisposed to think that there is more credibility to the Christian threat than the color blue threat. That's why the threat generally only "works" on those who already believe in the Christian God or those who are wavering in their belief but are still emotionally attached in some way.

In my case, having been raised in conservative Christian rural Iowa, the threat worked for a few years during my adolescence because of the emotional weight of almost the whole community saying it was true. Ironically, one of the big turning points was when I went to Lutheran catechism classes and the minister told us the story of Job. I was enthralled by the story because it seemed to be speaking to my doubts. At least I was enthralled right up to the point where the minister said that basically that we should think about the moral dilemmas in Christianity as a case of God working in mysterious ways. I pretty much decided right there that the Book of Job was just pure crapola copout and instead of assuaging my doubts, it strengthened them. I basically decided that I was getting a lot of hokum. Supposedly the Christian God is a God of perfect love, yet he would condemn someone to an eternity of hell simply for not believing in him no matter how virtuous the rest of their life is. I decided that organized Christian religion was largely a matter of selling after-life insurance to rubes afraid of not buying the snake oil. I'm sure that was a young man's over-reaction because I can see that for a great many people believing in Christianity has a great deal more to it than that, but I still think there is a germ of truth to it.

Colanth

Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"Accept brussel sprouts as the divine vegetable or burn for eternity. That doesn't mean you have to like them, just never speak wrongly of brussel sprouts because if you do I might kill you and send you to brussel sprout hell where the ONLY food is brussel sprouts. :evil:
Sounds like heaven to me.  Just add some protein, fat, vitamins and minerals.  But fresh - Brussels sprouts that have been sitting in the supermarket for a few days are just small chewy cabbages.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.