Do Gamers Need Sarkeesian's Feminism?

[Shiranu]

[youtube:1rxuevhb]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UrazpEFb9w[/youtube:1rxuevhb]

Agree with her or not, there are some serious issues in the gaming community that, if females or feminism is even remotely brought up, causes some significant backlash and outrage... not just, "how dare you!" but hoping that they are sexually assaulted and beaten (and yes, that happens amongst guys as well, but I know people like this and it is FAR more venomous when they aim it at women). Even if you disagree with her, you have to respect her imo for getting people talking about these type of issues.

[aileron]

Does this mean game devs are going to have to stop programming in breast jiggle physics?  That's a world I don't want to live in.

[Shiranu]

Does this mean game devs are going to have to stop programming in breast jiggle physics?  That's a world I don't want to live in.

The video is aimed more at the gaming community and its treatment of its 45% female population and not so much sexism in games themselves. I don't particularly see sexism in video games as any worse than it is in movies,  but I would like to see more empowered female characters in video games if not even for sexual equality but just to break the traditional mold and make things more interesting.

I don't have a problem with women being sexualized in games anymore than I have a problem with Calvin Klein showing David Beckham and other ripped me nearly naked in commercials. Both sides sexualize the other and I think that is perfectly natural so long as it isn't taken too far. But its the backlash a female gamer will have the second she opens her mouth that really turns me off of the gaming community and really gives the majority of male gamers a bad image and ruins the experience for alot of people.

At the end of the day, I am a "true" gamer... I play video games to enjoy myself, and I think everyone regardless of their race, sex or whatever should have the right to do so. I'm not saying men shouldn't talk shit to women in chat, but the problem is it crosses the line of "talking shit" into serious harassment and ruining their experience.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Does this mean game devs are going to have to stop programming in breast jiggle physics?  That's a world I don't want to live in.

I wouldn't mind if they went away. Breast jiggle physics in video games enter Uncanny Valley territory for me...

[Jason78]

Compare it to the way male gamers treat other male gamers.  Then it doesn't seem quite such an issue.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Compare it to the way male gamers treat other male gamers.  Then it doesn't seem quite such an issue.

[youtube:fcbckx9w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuAjSlxiN84[/youtube:fcbckx9w]

[Shiranu]

Compare it to the way male gamers treat other male gamers.  Then it doesn't seem quite such an issue.

I did, and I do not see nearly as much venom between the two. Like I said, it crosses the line from shit talking to harassment.

[Jason78]

Compare it to the way male gamers treat other male gamers.  Then it doesn't seem quite such an issue.

I did, and I do not see nearly as much venom between the two. Like I said, it crosses the line from shit talking to harassment.

Try looking at it objectively instead of trying to be a white knight.  The reason you are seeing more venom is because the target is female.

[Shiranu]

Compare it to the way male gamers treat other male gamers.  Then it doesn't seem quite such an issue.

I did, and I do not see nearly as much venom between the two. Like I said, it crosses the line from shit talking to harassment.

Try looking at it objectively instead of trying to be a white knight.  The reason you are seeing more venom is because the target is female.

Your right, the reason I see more venom IS because the target is female.

I don't see too many guys going out of their way to draw comics of male video game critics being raped,  beaten and even making a flashgame where you can beat him. I don't see too many guys that you give a game a 9/10, that everyone else gave a 9/10, and they go batshit and call for you to be fired because you brought up the fact the game can be a hardcore manfest (even though you didn't dock points for that). And I don't see guys saying the moment you open your mouth,  "Shut the fuck up bitch, go fix a car you shit fuck. What the fuck you think you are doing playing a video game and not working in the garage, I hope you get raped bitch".

Sorry, but acting like their isn't a gender problem in video game communities is like acting there isn't a Gender problem in the real world.  When a guy gets harassed simply for talking on a mic I'm nearly every lobby or is called to be fired because he said a game can be too much of a sausage fest,  then you can talk to me about how women are treated basically the same.

That isn't being a "knight in shining armour", that is realizing there is a problem in a community I am a part of and not liking it.  And when did disliking a bad thing suddenly become something to be ashamed of? I guess I lose man points because I don't think women just need to stfu and get over it...

[SilentFutility]

Edgy 12 year olds have been calling everyone names and talking shit since online gaming began, long before mics were even common.
The problem (if there even is one) is that people can say what they want with relative impunity.

Just because the insults and shit talking are modified to cause more offence to the recipient does not mean that they are being singled out.

[Nonsensei]

Some thoughts:

1) I take issue with the 45% figure. I need more information. I don't doubt the figure is accurate, I have questions about the distribution of the population. What I mean is, I am sure that 45% of CoD players are absolutely not female. I would imagine the real figure for that game to be closer to 5%. However if we change the game to jewelquest I imagine the female population shoots up to near 95%. To give an aggregate figure about the overall gaming industry is to ignore the fact that certain games are intentionally designed to appeal to certain demographics. This is an important distinction, because it shows that Sarkeesian is now complaining about games designed for males having features that appeal to males.

2) The social aspect of the internet is a phenomenon driven by the need for recognition. Everyone wants their words and machinations to go viral and be seen by a wide audience. When someone goes out of their way to design a game in which a female critic is beaten up they aren't thinking "Im gonna put that cunt in her place." They are thinking "LOL THIS IS GONNA GET SO MUCH TRAFFIC". This is the essence of trolling. People going above and beyond to exploit a flashpoint of social turmoil and get people to notice them. You are only doing everyone a disservice by reading these comments and seeing things like these images and games and treating them like they are a serious barometer of sexism in the gaming community. What they are a serious barometer of is people's need to stir the pot and be noticed.

3) My biggest problem with Sarkeesian's money grab assault on the gaming industry is that she never offers any solutions or talks about them. All she is focused on doing is proving that there exists a deep seated sexism that plagues the entire industry (and using the most slanted, truncated examples to do so, almost to the point where it amounts to outright deception). I assume this means that she feels the solution is for game developers to "stop doing that", whatever "that" may be. What she never really comes close to talking about is the fact that games have evolved their themes based on market response over a period of almost fifty years. Regardless of whether or not she likes the content, it is what sells. Homogenizing game themes so that Anita Sarkeesian is no longer offended is not a viable marketing strategy.

[the_antithesis]

I haven't really looked into this shit because when you look too closely at shit, all you get is pink eye.

I do have a problem with the claim that women are objectified. Everyone in a video game is objectified. It's a game, you idiot.

That said, there is a disparity in the character designs. Compare, say, Mario and his relative attractiveness and, well, every other fucking female character in every video game. This is a problem, but it's a problem that is not going to be solved by youtube videos. This is a problem that will be solved by making games featuring female characters with appearances that are outside the usual range from supermodel to supermodel when she's dressing down.

This is a problem that is not unique to video games. Look at all the actresses working in Hollywood and count how many don't fit some standards of attractive on one finger. Occasionally a movie gets made like Real Women Have Curves and Precious but then America Ferrera lost a lot of weight and Gabourey Sidibe hasn't done much since. Certainly hasn't starred in anything. Yeah, the same goes for male actors, but there is the occasional Steve Buscemi or Jack Black to round things out. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent female.

This is a problem that goes deeper than video games. Attempting to address this only in video games is kind of like blowing out a candle when the curtains are on fire.

I think the only way to fix this is with more art. More art that shows a wider range of what it means to be a woman, with varying body types, appearances, personalities, etc. Because this is not something that will be solved in this generation. We need to make this art so that the next generation will grow up with it and be used to it. All other attempts to solve this problem is just wank.

[SilentFutility]

Just because the insults and shit talking are modified to cause more offence to the recipient does not mean that they are being singled out.

Yes that modification mostly does mean that you are being singled out with your gender.

If someone online calls you a stupid bitch, and then 5 minutes later calls me a retarded knuckledragger, we have both recieved the same treatment, regardless of the offensive words having been chosen differently to specifically insult us more accurately. That was my point.

Secondly, people talk shit in video games all the time, and they always have, and if you just mute them and get on with playing then it isn't a problem. If people are going to get teary-eyed about what a 12 year old calls them in call of duty then they might as well live in a bubble and never go outside.

That said, there is a disparity in the character designs. Compare, say, Mario and his relative attractiveness and, well, every other fucking female character in every video game.

Such as princess peach who is equally just a cartoon and not a "hot woman".

The physiques of both men and women are exagerated in video games, they are a fantasy...

[the_antithesis]

Such as princess peach who is equally just a cartoon and not a "hot woman".

She's a caricature of a pretty girl. Beauty is one of her character traits, and some would argue her only defining trait. I'd recommend finding a better example.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

"Bitch" is to women what "nigger" is to blacks, whether most people realize it or not, so... yeah, gonna have to go with Shoe on this one.