Pres. Obama - Pros and Cons

[LikelyToBreak]

Under Obama the rich are getting richer and the poor and getting poorer.  And next year a bunch of us poor will also get to go to jail because we can't pay for Obamacare and continue to pay rent, eat, buy clothes, and other unnecessary things like that.  I guess that makes me a GOP dog, hate-mongering racist, sexists pig, stupid dumbass.

Then the fact I am not in jail this year, bodes well for Obama.  Under the GOP dogs I would already be in jail.  But, then employment would be up because of the all of the new jails needing to be built, so I guess that is a wash.

Under Obama, unemployment is down.  But then underemployment continues to rise.  I see that as a wash too.

Nah, I think Jason_Harvestdancer sums it up well:

I criticized Obama by calling him Bush 2.0,

And it is a damn good thing the Republicans are around.  Without them, who could you blame all of the ills of the world on.  Definitely not Obama's administration, that would make you a racist.  

Or is this just all GOP lies:
//http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/top-1-getting-95-income-gains-washington-responsible-151332783.html
And thanks need to go to The Whit for posting this link elsewhere.

[Johan]

Some of the women at work were talking about how all their hours are getting cut, and they just found out why. If they work more than 30 hours or so, our workplace must give them healthcare benefits, so everyone is kept below 30 hours now. This was just watercooler talk, but it presents an interesting argument against implementing the new healthcare laws. Sure, the workplace is pretty scummy to do that, but it's a consequence that IS happening to people who work the shitty part-time jobs in America.

That business model became common place at tons of American businesses 30 years ago. Some businesses managed to make it work, but others found the ensuing moral/productivity/quality employee retention issues were more costly than the money they saved by limiting hours and thus not paying their employees a living wage.

It may be true that obamacare will cause more businesses to switch more of their workforce to part time, but ultimately the laws of supply and demand will dictate what businesses must offer in order to keep employee turnover within acceptable levels for profitability. IOW this too shall pass for the majority of the workforce IMHO.

[LikelyToBreak]

Johan wrote in part:

It may be true that obamacare will cause more businesses to switch more of their workforce to part time, but ultimately the laws of supply and demand will dictate what businesses must offer in order to keep employee turnover within acceptable levels for profitability. IOW this too shall pass for the majority of the workforce IMHO.

I respectfully disagree.  While in the past it didn't work, now the workers have no place else to go.  Many are staying at shitty low paying jobs, because they can't find anything else.  People who in past would find new and better jobs would leave vacancies for those who stayed with the organization thus two people would be better off.  Now, those better jobs are just not there.  Leaving two people in crappy situations.  Many people are making half what they used to make, and don't see anyway to get back to making the money they used to.  Not in real dollars anyhow.

This has been an ongoing trend for at least a decade and we can't give all of the blame to Obama.  But, many of us don't see Obama doing anything to help change it either.  Thus, Bush 2.0.

[Poison Tree]

The most important thing that Obama has done is appoint two youngish, center-left Supreme Court justices so far.

I think this is often overlooked when talking about the legacy of (Democratic) presidents. The right has done a much better job of stirring up a focus on the court among their base--"got to get more conservatives on the supreme court to overturn row v wade and roll back gun control".

[Johan]

Johan wrote in part:

It may be true that obamacare will cause more businesses to switch more of their workforce to part time, but ultimately the laws of supply and demand will dictate what businesses must offer in order to keep employee turnover within acceptable levels for profitability. IOW this too shall pass for the majority of the workforce IMHO.

I respectfully disagree.  While in the past it didn't work, now the workers have no place else to go.  Many are staying at shitty low paying jobs, because they can't find anything else.  People who in past would find new and better jobs would leave vacancies for those who stayed with the organization thus two people would be better off.  Now, those better jobs are just not there.  Leaving two people in crappy situations.  Many people are making half what they used to make, and don't see anyway to get back to making the money they used to.  Not in real dollars anyhow.

I hear these sorts of statements all the time and for the life of me, I always have to wonder if the people making them were actually paying attention 20, 30 or 40 years ago. I cannot recall a time in my life when good desirable jobs were easy to find. I also cannot recall a time in my life when the people I knew personally who had a top notch work ethic and reasonable amounts talent along with nose to the grindstone get it done attitudes could not find gainful employment for themselves. The stoners? The burn outs? The idiots who acted like the world owed them something and believed they were too good to start at the bottom and work their way up? Yeah, they always had trouble finding work 30 years ago and they still do today.

There are no jobs now? My company has been looking for people for over a year now. They're paying current employees a finders fee if they refer a new hire. We're so in need of new hires that we had a sign built and installed in front of our office that says we're hiring. Not just a 'NOW HIRING' banner you get at Kinkos for $10. A painted wooden sign with graphics and artwork. There are probably four or five other businesses within 5 miles of our office with similar signs out front. Keep in mind as well that we're based in a state with one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. If you tell me that there are no jobs out there that you would want or that you're qualified for I might agree. But if you tell there are no jobs period I'm sorry but I just don't see it.

This has been an ongoing trend for at least a decade and we can't give all of the blame to Obama.  But, many of us don't see Obama doing anything to help change it either.  Thus, Bush 2.0.

With all due respect, what exactly is Obama supposed to do? And let me be clear, I'm no Obama fan. But there are lots of jobs out there. The job market is changing mind you and its definitely not the 1970's anymore. But exactly what is the president supposed to do if businesses decide that they want to move to part time model for most of their staff or if businesses decide they don't want hire applicants who think its acceptable to show up for job interview in sweatpants and flip flops? How is that the presidents fault?

I had a conversation with a hard core Obama hater last year. He said that in his opinion, Obama was the worst president we'd ever had. I asked him to explain why he thought that was. He said we're so much worse off now. I asked him to give examples of how his life was worse now than it was before Obama. The ONLY thing he could come up with was that gas was more expensive now than it was 8 years ago.

My response was that I could not recall a time in my life when gas was not more expensive than it was 8 years ago. But more importantly I asked him to explain when exactly gas prices became something the president was responsible for managing. Surprisingly he could not explain that to me.

I get that people hate Obama. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of him myself. But I don't understand the line of thinking when people say they hate Obama because of things that no president has ever been responsible for or had any control over.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Well..continue war? Which one? Afghanistan? It's winding down if not fast enough to everyones liking, but Iraq ended. Like it or not this world has a lot of haters. This nation has done little to nothing to stop that from happening and it began long before Obama was born. It's a history of exploitation to max profit and killing people for our way of life IS our way of life.
Blame Obama? That's a lot to heap on anyone.
Strangely our entire economic system is based on survival of the fittest and on this planet it means being the biggest bad ass on the planet. It's designed to extract everything from anyone at any price and if we don't do it someone else will.
Yeah, that's all Obama's fault. Grow up and stop singing kumbya.

[josephpalazzo]

I guess that makes me a GOP dog, hate-mongering racist, sexists pig, stupid dumbass.

You don't need to brag about it, we all know that you're a racist.

[LikelyToBreak]

Johan wrote in part:

I hear these sorts of statements all the time and for the life of me, I always have to wonder if the people making them were actually paying attention 20, 30 or 40 years ago.

I'm no longer in the job market so I can't give anecdotal evidence for my view about this.  Just this graph.

//http://www.nwlc.org/our-blog/hours-are-new-bonus-what-does-mean-workers-earning-minimum-wage
High unemployment and many people considered underemployed.  

On a side note, Johan what industry do you work in?  Because I know a lot of people who would like to get employed into something with a future.  Seriously, I am not joking or trying to make a point.  It would be great if I could point someone in the right direction.

The rest of the Johan's argument is just attacking a straw man.  I have never said Obama is the worse the president we have ever had.  I don't complain about the price of gas going up, and if it did I would have to have a reason to peg the blame on Obama or any other president.  And I don't hate Obama.

I do find it annoying that Obama promised things which I knew he could not deliver when he was running for president, and now he is not being held to task for not delivering.  Yes, I know all of the candidates for president make campaign promises they know they can't deliver on.  But, I didn't like it when Bush did it and I still didn't like it when Obama did it.

I don't know what Obama or anyone else can do to change the employment situation.  But, then if Obama can't do anything to change it now, how can we hold Bush responsible for the employment situation when he was president?  Bush and Obama both agreed on the banksters' bail out.  Thus, Bush 2.0, based on conduct rather than race.  

I don't hate Obama.  I didn't hate Bush.  I did and do disagree in the direction they both seem to have us on.   I do blame their Wall Street masters.  Who are more concerned with lining their own pockets than the welfare of this country or the world for that matter.  But, then I am probably just talking in code.

You have to check with josephpalazzo to find out what I really mean.  He is after all the world's foremost expert on what I really think.

[billhilly]

You don't need to brag about it, we all know that you're a racist.

Torquemada McCarthy strikes again!

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I guess that makes me a GOP dog, hate-mongering racist, sexists pig, stupid dumbass.

You don't need to brag about it, we all know that you're a racist.

So it's official - saying Obama is Bush 2.0 is a racist comment.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Blame the financial people, the GOP lead charge for deregulation and zero accountability of banks. It became institutionalized robbery and continues on a global scale..

[Smartmarzipan]

I guess that makes me a GOP dog, hate-mongering racist, sexists pig, stupid dumbass.

You don't need to brag about it, we all know that you're a racist.

So it's official - saying Obama is Bush 2.0 is a racist comment.

It's clear to me that the only person here who gives a rat's ass about the color of the President's skin is josephpalazzo.

[The Whit]

Blame the financial people, the GOP lead charge for deregulation and zero accountability of banks. It became institutionalized robbery and continues on a global scale..

Plenty of Democrats were all too happy to sit by the wayside and let it happen.  

I would like to point out that one of the only people in the government to try to bring attention to this issue was Ron Paul.

[LikelyToBreak]

To be fair Dennis Kucinich (D) also questioned the bailouts.  I always thought of Kucinich as the Democrat Ron Paul.  Each party is allowed one member to shake the boat.

[Smartmarzipan]

To be fair Dennis Kucinich (D) also questioned the bailouts.  I always thought of Kucinich as the Democrat Ron Paul.  Each party is allowed one member to shake the boat.

Gawd, I love Kucinich. I was rooting for him in the primaries all those years ago.....

Ohio, represent, yo. *throws gang sign*