Pres. Obama - Pros and Cons

[Smartmarzipan]

I thought it was about time we had a thread to go in depth and discuss the good, the bad, and the other things Obama has done during his Presidency. A list of policies, his involvement in each of them, the opposition to those policies, etc.

Let's talk about Barack Obama's Presidency here!

It can be anything from health care to gay rights, specific foreign policies, Gitmo, whatever you want. Defend him, criticize him, go for it. I think would should compile all the facts and our praise and gripes into one thread.

So, who wants to get the ball rolling?

[The Whit]

How about re-signing the PATRIOT Act for starters?

[Shiranu]

Healthcare = It's a conservative plan, so I am not impressed. And even then he cant get the conservatives to back it, which is pretty weak-sauce.

Gitmo = Yet to close it.

Foreign policies = Drone strikes on civilians, possible assassination of civilian nuclear scientists in Iran, getting involved in conflicts after the good guys have been killed (Syria) and risking giving chemical weapons to terrorist organizations (thankfully Russia bailed us out), pushed for war even though the majority of the population was against it... I know there is more, but I'm tired.

Economics = Has continued Bush-era economics, has made a few minor changes and didn't make a big deal out of Citizens United.

Drug War = Promised to let legal medical marijuana states live in peace. Has had more drug busts in his first term in those states than Bush had in two terms, as well as kept Bush's drug czar.

Immigration = Has deported more immigrants than any U.S. president before.

Gay rights = It's good he did what he did, but he only "evolved" his position after public opinion swung in its favour. I would have been more impressed if he had shown some integrity and been for it from the beginning, but good for him for doing the right thing (somewhat) anyways. Still alot of work to be done that I would like to see him push for, but he is better than anyone else has done.

Military = besides being a warmongerer he has continued to expand the military's budget while the public-sector economy struggles.

Back-bone: He hasn't really shown he has one.

So lets see... warmongerer, kills civilians indiscriminately, continues Bush-era economics, heavy-handed on deporting immigrants, lied about closing Gitmo, wants to support terrorist organizations... sorry, I see very little to like about his politics. I like him as a person, he seems like a cool guy, but then again so have alot of bad politicians.

Still better than Romney though, so I mean I guess there is that...

[josephpalazzo]

94% of Uninsured Americans Will Have Obamacare Premiums Below What the CBO Projected

... but for now it looks like Obamacare will be cheaper for families and taxpayers than was thought at the time Congress voted on it.

[Shiranu]

94% of Uninsured Americans Will Have Obamacare Premiums Below What the CBO Projected

... but for now it looks like Obamacare will be cheaper for families and taxpayers than was thought at the time Congress voted on it.

Still astronomically more expensive and wasteful than the rest of the civilized world (note: I don't blame Obama for that, I blame the entire U.S. gov't for decades for that).

On one hand, at least it makes it cheaper. On the other hand I don't think it's a step in the right direction because it's just making the inefficient system slightly more efficient rather than switching to a more efficient system.

[Atheon]

The most important thing that Obama has done is appoint two youngish, center-left Supreme Court justices so far. Had McCain been elected, the SC would be so overloaded with rightwingers that the damage they would wreak would be unimaginable for decades to come. Even Citizens United would be mild in comparison.

He's still got a possibility of appointing one or two more... some of them are getting pretty old.

Other good things he's done: Obamacare, rid the world of Osama bin Laden, signed the Lily Ledbetter Act, ended DADT, came out in favor of gay marriage (thus helping accelerate acceptance of gay marriage among the populace, particularly among black voters), and generally made the Republicans look like mouth-foaming fools.

Bad things: failure to close Guantanamo, extending the Patriot Act, continuing many Bush policies, saber rattling at Syria, and giving in too readily to the Refucklicans far too often.  

Obama's done plenty I disagree with, but he's still far better than McCain or Romney would have been. With either one of them, take all of Obama's bad and double it, and subtract all of Obama's good. There is a difference between Republicans and Democrats: Dems do some good things and many bad things; Republicans, however, do no good at all, and they ramp up the bad beyond what any Democrat would do.

[josephpalazzo]

Still astronomically more expensive and wasteful than the rest of the civilized world

Agree. Nevertheless, there were an estimated 40-50 millions uninsured who didn't pay into the system. This part of the AHA at least addresses this problem. If more people pay into the system, premiums will go down.

(note: I don't blame Obama for that, I blame the entire U.S. gov't for decades for that).

On one hand, at least it makes it cheaper. On the other hand I don't think it's a step in the right direction because it's just making the inefficient system slightly more efficient rather than switching to a more efficient system.

The GOP controls the House of Representative, and with that reality, the healthcare system will never get up to par with the rest of the civilized countries.

It's a cheapshot at Obama if anyone blames him for this sad state of affairs.

[Smartmarzipan]

Some of the women at work were talking about how all their hours are getting cut, and they just found out why. If they work more than 30 hours or so, our workplace must give them healthcare benefits, so everyone is kept below 30 hours now. This was just watercooler talk, but it presents an interesting argument against implementing the new healthcare laws. Sure, the workplace is pretty scummy to do that, but it's a consequence that IS happening to people who work the shitty part-time jobs in America.

[Shiranu]

Some of the women at work were talking about how all their hours are getting cut, and they just found out why. If they work more than 30 hours or so, our workplace must give them healthcare benefits, so everyone is kept below 30 hours now. This was just watercooler talk, but it presents an interesting argument against implementing the new healthcare laws. Sure, the workplace is pretty scummy to do that, but it's a consequence that IS happening to people who work the shitty part-time jobs in America.

This is happening at a lot of companies, yeah.

[josephpalazzo]

Some of the women at work were talking about how all their hours are getting cut, and they just found out why. If they work more than 30 hours or so, our workplace must give them healthcare benefits, so everyone is kept below 30 hours now. This was just watercooler talk, but it presents an interesting argument against implementing the new healthcare laws. Sure, the workplace is pretty scummy to do that, but it's a consequence that IS happening to people who work the shitty part-time jobs in America.

If they're cutting people's working hours, wouldn't they need to hire more people then to make up?

[Shiranu]

Some of the women at work were talking about how all their hours are getting cut, and they just found out why. If they work more than 30 hours or so, our workplace must give them healthcare benefits, so everyone is kept below 30 hours now. This was just watercooler talk, but it presents an interesting argument against implementing the new healthcare laws. Sure, the workplace is pretty scummy to do that, but it's a consequence that IS happening to people who work the shitty part-time jobs in America.

If they're cutting people's working hours, wouldn't they need to hire more people then to make up?

I know some businesses claim it's cheaper, and I can see that.

If you have two people working minimum wage, then that's (lets say min. is $7.00 in the state) $14 an hour for however many hours a week. That is still alot cheaper then having to provide healthcare benefits.

I know at Walgreen's they worked us pretty much 39h 59m 59s so that they wouldn't have to provide us with any benefits.

[Smartmarzipan]

Some of the women at work were talking about how all their hours are getting cut, and they just found out why. If they work more than 30 hours or so, our workplace must give them healthcare benefits, so everyone is kept below 30 hours now. This was just watercooler talk, but it presents an interesting argument against implementing the new healthcare laws. Sure, the workplace is pretty scummy to do that, but it's a consequence that IS happening to people who work the shitty part-time jobs in America.

If they're cutting people's working hours, wouldn't they need to hire more people then to make up?

They are. I've seen 3 new people in the past 3 days.

[Eric1958]

I can't blame Obama for gitmo. Congress made it illegal to bring them into the country to face trial, which I believe was sort of like spitting on the constitution. I don't like exempting those prisoners from the right to a fair and speedy trial.

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Con - everything I didn't like about Bush is continued under Obama.  Top of the list, war.

I wonder, though.  Since I criticized Obama by calling him Bush 2.0, does that make me a racist?

[Hijiri Byakuren]

I can't blame Obama for gitmo. Congress made it illegal to bring them into the country to face trial, which I believe was sort of like spitting on the constitution. I don't like exempting those prisoners from the right to a fair and speedy trial.

Yeah I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure Obama does not have 100% say in what happens to Gitmo...