Scientists are causing Creationism (and the like)!

[josephpalazzo]

Ask 100 patients with Near Death Experience what they saw of hidden stuff behind boxes, furniture etc. while they were unconcsious and dying (or dead) after they've been ressucitated, and compare the results. If there are enough people to actually report the accurate precise positions of the hidden stuff, that they couldn't possibly know of, conduct the experiment again. And again. This time with 200, then 500, then 1000.

But even though the scientists promissed to do so, nobody has wanted to actually start the project yet.

I wonder why.

Sorry to rain on your parade:

A new scientific explanation for near-death experiences

[billhilly]

I have no education level AT ALL.

really?  I never would have guessed.

[mediumaevum]

In regards to ghosts, there needs virtually nothing to prove or disprove of the theory of ghosts.
The experiment with Near Death Experiences is the simplest research that can be conducted and explained to the public:

Ask 100 patients with Near Death Experience what they saw of hidden stuff behind boxes, furniture etc. while they were unconcsious and dying (or dead) after they've been ressucitated, and compare the results. If there are enough people to actually report the accurate precise positions of the hidden stuff, that they couldn't possibly know of, conduct the experiment again. And again. This time with 200, then 500, then 1000.

But even though the scientists promissed to do so, nobody has wanted to actually start the project yet.

I wonder why.

Because you didn't bother to find out, a paper exists on this exact topic. I would find it for you but my experience with people who haven't looked up something before claiming it doesn't exist, is that you wouldn't be interested in reading it even if I found it for you. I've found over 20 research papers for people who never bother to read them  :(

That's just silly. You are really stooping to an extremely low level.

You can't possibly know what I would like to read and what I won't read.
You don't know me at all, but you have a lot of prejudice against me, from my Introduction post in that subforum.

[Icarus]

The abstracts just aint enough for me all the time.
Sometimes, I really wish I could read the whole article, but it seems locked, and I don't want to pay for it.

In my country, science/research is paid by the state (tax money). In addition, much research is conducted on international basis, with various countries cooporating. Its all paid for by the tax payers of the respective countries.

I pay my tax, I expect the free science journals in return. Period.

Why don't you just put up a counter argument (why are they only refering to the authors, and not their specific works?), instead of stooping to that level?

You insult me, my colleges, and the entire scientific process and you ask why I'm calling you stupid? Really?

Science is funded in part by the government but the private sector also plays a major role.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding_of_science

[Icarus]

That's just silly. You are really stooping to an extremely low level.

You can't possibly know what I would like to read and what I won't read.
You don't know me at all, but you have a lot of prejudice against me, from my Introduction post in that subforum.

Honestly I don't care what 'level' I'm 'stooping' too. I have prejudice against people who make large claims having done no research (you in this case). I'll find the paper, give me a minute.

Josephpalazzo beat me to it but the paper is titled: Surge of neurophysiological coherence and connectivity in the dying brain

[mediumaevum]

Ask 100 patients with Near Death Experience what they saw of hidden stuff behind boxes, furniture etc. while they were unconcsious and dying (or dead) after they've been ressucitated, and compare the results. If there are enough people to actually report the accurate precise positions of the hidden stuff, that they couldn't possibly know of, conduct the experiment again. And again. This time with 200, then 500, then 1000.

But even though the scientists promissed to do so, nobody has wanted to actually start the project yet.

I wonder why.

Sorry to rain on your parade:

A new scientific explanation for near-death experiences

It says nothing about the experiment I was talking about. Firstly, it didn't make the experiment with the hidden stuff and question the patients if they found anything hidden behind boxes, furniture etc. and what exactly the patients observed.

Secondly, it conducted research on rats, not humans, but I guess its not that relevant, as I trust the EEG of rats should be similar to that of humans.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Medium... I have sympathies.. The water department in Dayton wouldn't listen to me either and think of me as another morally bankrupt lunatic too..

[josephpalazzo]

Ask 100 patients with Near Death Experience what they saw of hidden stuff behind boxes, furniture etc. while they were unconcsious and dying (or dead) after they've been ressucitated, and compare the results. If there are enough people to actually report the accurate precise positions of the hidden stuff, that they couldn't possibly know of, conduct the experiment again. And again. This time with 200, then 500, then 1000.

But even though the scientists promissed to do so, nobody has wanted to actually start the project yet.

I wonder why.

Sorry to rain on your parade:

A new scientific explanation for near-death experiences

It says nothing about the experiment I was talking about. Firstly, it didn't make the experiment with the hidden stuff and question the patients if they found anything hidden behind boxes, furniture etc. and what exactly the patients observed.

Secondly, it conducted research on rats, not humans, but I guess its not that relevant, as I trust the EEG of rats should be similar to that of humans.

Hard science is better than anecdotes.

Finally, the researchers saw cross-frequency coupling — where different electrical waves work together — in the rats' brains after cardiac arrest. They found coupling between low-frequency gamma waves and theta waves, as well as low-gamma waves with alpha waves. When theta waves couple with gamma waves, it represents a conscious control of the brain. Alpha-gamma coupling, on the other hand, is a feature of visual activation or visual awareness, which includes internal visualization (imagination) — Borjigin suggests this particular brain activity could be behind the bright lights some people see during their near-death experience.

Taken together, the evidence suggests that the brain is capable of well-organized electrical activity — specifically conscious processing — immediately following cardiac arrest, despite the fact that the brain experiences a sharp decrease in oxygen, and was previously thought to be non-functional during this time. These neurophysiological changes may very well be the cause of the near-death experiences people often report.

[mediumaevum]

I have no education level AT ALL.

really?  I never would have guessed.

I just knew it would be used against me...

You see, this whole thread, not the OP but the comments to my OP actually prove what I said in my OP about people being arrogant towards those
who question science.

I actually find that Atheist Forums.com is no better in regards to self-questioning than various religious zealot forums.

[Icarus]

I just knew it would be used against me...

You see, this whole thread, not the OP but the comments to my OP actually prove what I said in my OP about people being arrogant towards those
who question science.

I actually find that Atheist Forums.com is no better in regards to self-questioning than various religious zealot forums.

Maybe if you had the mindset of, "Hey guys I would love some more information on how these things I don't understand work" instead of "Scientists are fucking lazy and greedy, what's up with that?"

[Smartmarzipan]

I have no education level AT ALL.

really?  I never would have guessed.

I just knew it would be used against me...

You see, this whole thread, not the OP but the comments to my OP actually prove what I said in my OP about people being arrogant towards those
who question science.

I actually find that Atheist Forums.com is no better in regards to self-questioning than various religious zealot forums.

Then leave and take your crackpot theories and your pity party elsewhere. Oh, boo hoo, a bunch of people didn't agree with you. I see this crap all the time....instead of just admitting you're pulling this stuff out of your ass (as we all can see), you call us narrow-minded for not jumping on your little bandwagon.

Go away if you want. You won't be missed.

[mediumaevum]

Hard science is better than anecdotes.

Finally, the researchers saw cross-frequency coupling — where different electrical waves work together — in the rats' brains after cardiac arrest. They found coupling between low-frequency gamma waves and theta waves, as well as low-gamma waves with alpha waves. When theta waves couple with gamma waves, it represents a conscious control of the brain. Alpha-gamma coupling, on the other hand, is a feature of visual activation or visual awareness, which includes internal visualization (imagination) — Borjigin suggests this particular brain activity could be behind the bright lights some people see during their near-death experience.

Taken together, the evidence suggests that the brain is capable of well-organized electrical activity — specifically conscious processing — immediately following cardiac arrest, despite the fact that the brain experiences a sharp decrease in oxygen, and was previously thought to be non-functional during this time. These neurophysiological changes may very well be the cause of the near-death experiences people often report.

Then I guess it should be no problem making statistical analysis by the experiments of the hidden stuff I was talking about.

These patients report seing their own body from above. Have some small stuff hidden away so that you can only see it from above, and ask them if they found something while supposedly being "dead", and if they don't report of anything, the study is complete, and then we can say Science has proved there is nothing paranormal.

[Plu]

Ask 100 patients with Near Death Experience what they saw of hidden stuff behind boxes, furniture etc. while they were unconcsious and dying (or dead) after they've been ressucitated, and compare the results. If there are enough people to actually report the accurate precise positions of the hidden stuff, that they couldn't possibly know of, conduct the experiment again. And again. This time with 200, then 500, then 1000.

But even though the scientists promissed to do so, nobody has wanted to actually start the project yet.

I wonder why.

Sorry to rain on your parade:

A new scientific explanation for near-death experiences

It says nothing about the experiment I was talking about. Firstly, it didn't make the experiment with the hidden stuff and question the patients if they found anything hidden behind boxes, furniture etc. and what exactly the patients observed.

Secondly, it conducted research on rats, not humans, but I guess its not that relevant, as I trust the EEG of rats should be similar to that of humans.

Check out dr Sartori's website: http://www.drpennysartori.com/

You'll have to look for the specific article, but she did just that research you mentioned with the hidden objects. I don't really care enough to find the exact research you need, but the conclusion from the research is exactly what you would expect it to be.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4261

As an example of the value of anecdotes in suggesting directions for research, Dr. Penny Sartori placed playing cards in obvious places on top of operating room cabinets at a hospital in Wales in 2001, while she was working as a nurse, as part of a supervised experiment. Although she's a believer in the afterlife, and documented fifteen cases of reported out-of-body experiences by patients during her research, not one person ever reported seeing the playing cards or even knowing they were there.

[josephpalazzo]

I have no education level AT ALL.

really?  I never would have guessed.

I just knew it would be used against me...

You see, this whole thread, not the OP but the comments to my OP actually prove what I said in my OP about people being arrogant towards those
who question science.

I actually find that Atheist Forums.com is no better in regards to self-questioning than various religious zealot forums.

One invidual (solitary) might have offended you, but then you went on a rant. You should never judge a whole group of people by the behavior of one, in particulat solitary, who is not a representative of this forum.

[Plu]

Nobody is a representative of this forum. We're all a bunch of oddjobs.