Author Topic: Evolution for Beginners  (Read 38776 times)

Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #105 on: February 02, 2017, 01:23:58 PM »
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The first time I ever saw this graphic was on this forum several years ago. I seem to remember, perhaps incorrectly,  that the member that posted it was the person that created it, but I can't remember who it was. Does anyone else remember that and know who it was?

In the meantime kudos to whoever it was for creating a great graphic that's now all over the interwebs!

Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Offline Cavebear

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #106 on: February 11, 2017, 02:18:18 AM »
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Exactly.

Also, I've never seen any sort of case presented as to why evolution is okay on the micro scale, but not on the macro.  Creationists need to offer a mechanism for why evolution stops at the micro level, or some sort of semi-logical argument as to why it shouldn't work at larger time frames.

"It just doesn't" isn't good enough, without explaining why it doesn't.

Microevolution is OK to Creationists because it doesn't seem important.  A crab can slightly change its shell shape in the 6,000 years of Earthly existence and they don't care.  Who cares about those Samuri crabs, after all?

But when you talk about macro, one ape becoming a human, THAT threatens them.  That takes too long.  And, of course, Adam and Eve.
But when you talk about
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline trdsf

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #107 on: February 13, 2017, 10:43:22 AM »
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Microevolution is OK to Creationists because it doesn't seem important.  A crab can slightly change its shell shape in the 6,000 years of Earthly existence and they don't care.  Who cares about those Samuri crabs, after all?

But when you talk about macro, one ape becoming a human, THAT threatens them.  That takes too long.  And, of course, Adam and Eve.
And yet no creationist "theory" ever puts forth a mechanism for why evolution doesn't work at the macro level, beyond "it just doesn't".  Granted, it's no surprise that they don't understand how science works.

As far as I'm concerned, it is perfectly legitimate to reject IDiocy out of hand until they can rectify that glaring hole.  Of course they never will, because that glaring hole is exactly what they hang their creationism on: "it just doesn't, therefore..."
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Online Hydra009

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #108 on: February 13, 2017, 11:05:43 AM »
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And yet no creationist "theory" ever puts forth a mechanism for why evolution doesn't work at the macro level, beyond "it just doesn't".
Which is funny, because a lot of these same people think that modern species came from a bunch of "kinds" created just a few thousand years ago.  What they're proposing is evolution on steroids.  And then they turn around and say that regular evolution couldn't possibly work because evolution can't generate large changes, a lie so obviously false that not even the people saying it actually believe it.

The real truth of the matter is they want their reality ice cream with the God cherry on top and whatever they have to believe to maintain that belief is what they're going to go with.  Evolution threatens their narrative, so they need it to not be so.  They have the unenviable task of trying to make modern science work with bronze age mythology, and the end result is inevitably a massive disservice to both.

Offline trdsf

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #109 on: February 13, 2017, 12:42:54 PM »
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Which is funny, because a lot of these same people think that modern species came from a bunch of "kinds" created just a few thousand years ago.  What they're proposing is evolution on steroids.  And then they turn around and say that regular evolution couldn't possibly work because evolution can't generate large changes, a lie so obviously false that not even the people saying it actually believe it.

Pretty much, yeah.  The reason they present to refute macro-evolution is to implicitly assume macro-evolution on a scale even faster than the one they already reject as being not long enough to bring about major changes that can't happen anyway.

I don't suppose there's any fossil evidence for their "kinds".  Or, it being only a few thousand years ago, any bones -- which can't be carbon dated because they reject carbon dating as evidence.  Maybe a creationist "archaeologist" could find Noah's Ark?

Oh, wait.  Genesis didn't say anything about kinds, it said animals, described more or less as the modern ones with which we are familiar, all the way back to chapter 1.  So the theory of kinds isn't in accord with their own text.

Yup.  Accepting the theory of "kinds" means rejecting biblical literality.

Color me amused but not surprised.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Baruch

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #110 on: February 13, 2017, 12:52:46 PM »
"kind" = [Old English gecynd nature; compare Old English cyn kin, Gothic kuni race, Old High German kikunt, Latin gens] ... so similar to species

But ...
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This is a translation problem, turned into a tempest in a teapot.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #111 on: February 17, 2017, 08:53:14 AM »
Creationism is basically the idea that species do not change and therefore, all species were created by a deity at the same time and individually, yet with all the  similarities. The deity must have been lacking in creative thought.

Our similarities in DNA suggest our common origin, and the differences go so smoothly along the timescale that the progression seems obvious.  I often feel sorry for those who have to deny that in order to keep their theistic views consistent.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #112 on: February 17, 2017, 09:13:40 AM »
Donald Trump is a prime example of the failure to prove evolution. He's still pond scum. Checkmate evolutionists..
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline Baruch

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #113 on: February 17, 2017, 01:07:37 PM »
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Donald Trump is a prime example of the failure to prove evolution. He's still pond scum. Checkmate evolutionists..

Pond scum at least converts carbon dioxide to oxygen ... and you do what?
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #114 on: February 19, 2017, 04:47:05 AM »
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Pond scum at least converts carbon dioxide to oxygen ... and you do what?

We animals provide some of the carbon dioxide... 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #115 on: February 19, 2017, 06:35:23 AM »
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We animals provide some of the carbon dioxide...

If you were a ruminant, you could also provide methane and cow tipping.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #116 on: March 02, 2017, 06:09:58 AM »
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If you were a ruminant, you could also provide methane and cow tipping.

Last I checked, I was not a ruminant.  Though I DO try to chew my food carefully.  Its the cud I try to avoid...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #117 on: May 07, 2017, 10:11:40 PM »
did some mining, just to blow some minds. Nostalgic.
Q for theists; how can there be freewill and miracles? And, how can prayer exist in an environment as regimented as "gods plan"?

"I'm a polyatheist, there are many gods I don't believe in." - Dan Fouts

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #118 on: May 08, 2017, 07:39:48 PM »
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If you were a ruminant, you could also provide methane and cow tipping.



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"Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child,"
Ecclesiastes 10:16
Or: Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is batshit crazy.

Online Hydra009

Re: Evolution for Beginners
« Reply #119 on: May 08, 2017, 07:57:22 PM »
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Creationism is basically the idea that species do not change and therefore, all species were created by a deity at the same time and individually, yet with all the  similarities. The deity must have been lacking in creative thought.

Our similarities in DNA suggest our common origin, and the differences go so smoothly along the timescale that the progression seems obvious.  I often feel sorry for those who have to deny that in order to keep their theistic views consistent.
Late reply I know, but we have some very startling similarities.  Not just anatomical similarities, but genetic similarities including endogenous retroviruses and pseudogenes.  Either God makes mistakes and repeats said mistakes for funsies, or species descend from common ancestors.

 

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