Israel and its history of false flag attacks

[AtheistMoFo]

The risks to Israel's existence should their role become known would be far too extreme for them to make such an attack. They would lose between three and four billion dollars a year in American assistance, and more importantly, instantly become a pariah state.  Because of their geopolitical situation, becoming a pariah state would in all likelihood mean national extinction.  Even if that dire outcome didn't happen, the Arab states would reap such political fruits that Israel could never again credibly argue that it is the democratic sensible alternative in the Middle East.

No, the political calculus doesn't compute.

The OP mentions the Lavon Affair, code named Operation Susannah.  (Ring any bells?  Any resemblance to one of the most famous folk songs in American history?)  And this caper was pulled off in 1954, only six years after israel came into existence as a country.  They had the balls then, and have only gotten more bold and more brazen as the years go by.  The goal of O.Susannah was to undermine Western support for Egypt.  The targets of the attacks were American and British.

The israeli terrorists were caught in the act and israel instantly became a pariah state.

Oh, wait!  No, I don't believe they did after all!

After being caught red-handed and getting away scott free, they either abstained from covert terrorist operations against US and other Western nations for the next 13 years, or they exercised them with greater caution so as not to get caught again.

But in 1967, they DID get caught red-handed again.  This time, the plan was to sink the USS Liberty and murder any survivors (witnesses), and blame it on their Arab neighbors with whom they were at war.  They damn near succeded, too, but somehow the Liberty stayed afloat.

So what did Lyndon Johnson do?  "Bad, bad israel.  Hold out your hand now while I slap your wrist with a ruler.  But since you are such a nice little bunch of jews and you take your just punishment of being slapped on the wrist so graciously, I am not going to let the American people know what you did.  After all, you remember how the American people reacted when those nasty Japs attacked Pearl Harbor!  They made us declare war on Japan and nuke them Jap MoFos!  We don't want that happen to you jew friends now do we."

And for the next 30 years, no one other than the victims who were directly involved ever knew the truth about the day israel attacked a United States navy ship.

Fast forward a few short years to 2001...

Sorry, Thumpalumpacus, you need to recompute your political calculus.

"In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 (US$22.3 million in 2014) as full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the final U.S. bill of $17,132,709 for material damage to the Liberty herself plus 13 years' interest."

So they paid out a few million dollars for the wrongful murders and damages.  Compared with how many BILLION dollars the US taxpayers fork over to the jew motherfuckers every single year?  Gimme a fukin break.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The risks to Israel's existence should their role become known would be far too extreme for them to make such an attack. They would lose between three and four billion dollars a year in American assistance, and more importantly, instantly become a pariah state.  Because of their geopolitical situation, becoming a pariah state would in all likelihood mean national extinction.  Even if that dire outcome didn't happen, the Arab states would reap such political fruits that Israel could never again credibly argue that it is the democratic sensible alternative in the Middle East.

No, the political calculus doesn't compute.

The OP mentions the Lavon Affair, code named Operation Susannah.  (Ring any bells?  Any resemblance to one of the most famous folk songs in American history?)  And this caper was pulled off in 1954, only six years after israel came into existence as a country.  They had the balls then, and have only gotten more bold and more brazen as the years go by.  The goal of O.Susannah was to undermine Western support for Egypt.  The targets of the attacks were American and British.

The israeli terrorists were caught in the act and israel instantly became a pariah state.

Oh, wait!  No, I don't believe they did after all!

After being caught red-handed and getting away scott free, they either abstained from covert terrorist operations against US and other Western nations for the next 13 years, or they exercised them with greater caution so as not to get caught again.

But in 1967, they DID get caught red-handed again.  This time, the plan was to sink the USS Liberty and murder any survivors (witnesses), and blame it on their Arab neighbors with whom they were at war.  They damn near succeded, too, but somehow the Liberty stayed afloat.

So what did Lyndon Johnson do?  "Bad, bad israel.  Hold out your hand now while I slap your wrist with a ruler.  But since you are such a nice little bunch of jews and you take your just punishment of being slapped on the wrist so graciously, I am not going to let the American people know what you did.  After all, you remember how the American people reacted when those nasty Japs attacked Pearl Harbor!  They made us declare war on Japan and nuke them Jap MoFos!  We don't want that happen to you jew friends now do we."

And for the next 30 years, no one other than the victims who were directly involved ever knew the truth about the day israel attacked a United States navy ship.

Fast forward a few short years to 2001...

Sorry, Thumpalumpacus, you need to recompute your political calculus.

Of course I knew about the USS Liberty, but given the drastically different geopolitical circumstances, it doesn't strike me as terribly relevant.

I'm sure you've noticed that the political calculus has changed since the late 60s -- to wit, the demise of the USSR, the patron state of so many Arab despots in that era, is no more, and our foreign policy is no longer viewed through the prism of the Cold War, where Israel was viewed as an anti-USSR bulwark. Additionally, the splitting of the Arab bloc into treaty and non-treaty factions means that Israel's survival is much less at stake.  The only military power in the region that can reliably threaten Israel (that is, Egypt) has signed a peace treaty with Israel and in 2001 had enjoyed peaceful relations for decades. That means that the threat to Israel was much less existential, and that therefore drastic risks are even more in contrast to the standard methods of statecraft.

To sum up: with Russia no longer a threat, America would not tolerate such a deadly attack on it, even from a putative "ally".

And with the Arab bloc split, Israel would likely no longer feel the need to run such a dramatic risk.

Based on that, I stand by what I've written.

So they paid out a few million dollars for the wrongful murders and damages.  Compared with how many BILLION dollars the US taxpayers fork over to the jew motherfuckers every single year?  Gimme a fukin break.

You obviously have a visceral emotional reaction coloring your views.

[stromboli]

Jew motherfuckers? Uh oh.

 

[Shiranu]

Jew motherfuckers? Uh oh.

 

I'm proud of myself, I didn't bite on that for once...

[josephpalazzo]

Jew motherfuckers? Uh oh.

 

Yep, if two Jews leave a buiding, and later on that buildng is bombed, then not only the two Jews knew about the coming attack, but Israel must be the guilty party behind the bombing.

In this awful thread, two things were not given attention:

(1) At the outbreak of the war, Israel had warned the world that it would attack any unidentified ships near its shores.
(2) The US failed to notify Israel the location and mission the USS Liberty.

But who cares, Jews are bad, and they are trying to dominate the world.  :Hangman:

[AtheistMoFo]

Of course I knew about the USS Liberty, but given the drastically different geopolitical circumstances, it doesn't strike me as terribly relevant.

I'm sure you've noticed that the political calculus has changed since the late 60s ...
Based on that, I stand by what I've written.

You have a valid  point, but you are still missing a part of the picture.  The Liberty incident is very much relevant.  Johnson must have been very pissed off about the murder of 34 American personnel and serious wounding of 171 more.  But taking the geopolitical factors that you pointed out into condideration, he did what he saw as the best option from the overall viewpoint.  It must have been a bitter pill for him to swallow.  He chose to hide it from the people knowing that the people would not stand for this hostile act of the israelis biting the hand that feeds them.

As you pointed out, the geopolitical structure has changed.  But the israelis still have the US government by the balls, although in a much different way.  They can be as arrogant as they choose, so long as the Americn PEOPLE do not find out about it.  So hypothetically assuming they did have something to do with 9/11, as I and others allege, the US government would have to cooperate in covering it up.

Consider this.  In 1967, we did not have an Internet yet.  Coverups were relatively easy.  You just ring up some old college buddies on the editing staffs of major media outlets and pull in some favors.  Or, make threats if necessary.

In 2001, the Internet was just emerging.  After 9/11 happened, what happened?  For one thing, the biggest coverup world history has ever known.  Wouldn't the 2001 US govenment have been basically in the same boat as the Johnson administration, even though for different reasons?  Hence, the 9/11 Commission was intentionally set up to fail.  Hence, the obvious insider trading that took place before 9/11 was ignored.  Hence, all forensic evidence from the scene of the world's most heinous crime just disappears.  Hence, all 9/11 compensation lawsuits were assigned to one judge (a jew, by coincidence) whose son living in israel (by coincidence) was a lawyer representing the israeli companies who ran security operations at airports where the hijacked planes departed from.

The list of coincidences is monumental.  Coincidence is not necessarily conclusive proof.  But it should be sufficient to raise enough doubt to at least investigate.  A massive coverup took place.  If the israelis were not involved, who was?

[josephpalazzo]

If the israelis were not involved, who was?

So bin Laden did not train those terrorists, he lied to the world by admitting he was behind 9/11, he lied to save Israel's asses and perpetrated the greatest hoax just so that he could take credit for what happened. Ok, you had your day. Now go get a real life. (I'm trying very hard not to call you a fucking moron)...

[stromboli]

There are 6.8 million Jewish people in the United States. A similar number in Israel. Assuming all other countries, you are looking at maybe twenty million total, possibly less. That makes them about 1/400th of the worlds population. So 1/400th of the world's population is dominating our governments, secretly reshuffling political events worldwide in an Illuminati cabal, causing every bad thing like 9/11 or whatever. Sorry, but I'm just not quite convinced.

[josephpalazzo]

There are two things common to theists and CTers: they both have faith without evidence... oh wait, that makes only one thing in common... #-o

[Thumpalumpacus]

As you pointed out, the geopolitical structure has changed.  But the israelis still have the US government by the balls, although in a much different way.  They can be as arrogant as they choose, so long as the Americn PEOPLE do not find out about it.  So hypothetically assuming they did have something to do with 9/11, as I and others allege, the US government would have to cooperate in covering it up.

Consider this.  In 1967, we did not have an Internet yet.  Coverups were relatively easy.  You just ring up some old college buddies on the editing staffs of major media outlets and pull in some favors.  Or, make threats if necessary.

In 2001, the Internet was just emerging.  After 9/11 happened, what happened?  For one thing, the biggest coverup world history has ever known.  Wouldn't the 2001 US govenment have been basically in the same boat as the Johnson administration, even though for different reasons?  Hence, the 9/11 Commission was intentionally set up to fail.  Hence, the obvious insider trading that took place before 9/11 was ignored.  Hence, all forensic evidence from the scene of the world's most heinous crime just disappears.  Hence, all 9/11 compensation lawsuits were assigned to one judge (a jew, by coincidence) whose son living in israel (by coincidence) was a lawyer representing the israeli companies who ran security operations at airports where the hijacked planes departed from.

The list of coincidences is monumental.  Coincidence is not necessarily conclusive proof.  But it should be sufficient to raise enough doubt to at least investigate.  A massive coverup took place.  If the israelis were not involved, who was?

Again, this is perhaps the most investigated attack of the last hundred years.

Is it possible the Israelis were behind the attacks?  Certainly.  But so far as has been seen, there are no hard connections.  And as I pointed out earlier, the putative logic used to analyze the potential Israeli connection is deeply flawed.

Coincidences aren't evidence.  Show me the money.  Show me a Mossad or other Israeli government organ  being involved in it.  

Coincidences are not only not "conclusive" proof, they are no proof at all.  Arguing otherwise is falling afoul of post hoc, ergo propter hoc.  Let's see laundry lists.  Let's see operative names, or faces, or bank account numbers.  

You're making an extraordinary claim; let's see extraordinary evidence.

[Thumpalumpacus]

There are two things common to theists and CTers: they both have faith without evidence... oh wait, that makes only one thing in common... #-o

I'll admit, I think JFK  was the victim of a conspiracy.  I'm not automatically a refuter.  But I want better evidence than  a couple of guys leaving work early.

[Shiranu]

There are two things common to theists and CTers: they both have faith without evidence... oh wait, that makes only one thing in common... #-o

I'll admit, I think JFK  was the victim of a conspiracy.  I'm not automatically a refuter.  But I want better evidence than  a couple of guys leaving work early.

To be fair, in that situation there is VERY good motivation for multiple parties to off him... parties that had no problem offing other high ranking people throughout the world...

[stromboli]

Tbh, there is more reason to believe that Sam Giancana ordered the hit on JFK because he had a serious beef with Joe Kennedy Sr. Jack Ruby's part in it tends to point to him.

[Shiranu]

Tbh, there is more reason to believe that Sam Giancana ordered the hit on JFK because he had a serious beef with Joe Kennedy Sr. Jack Ruby's part in it tends to point to him.

JFK definitely made a lot of enemies. I still think it was just a nutter,  but unlike this threads conspiracy I think there is some credibility to it having been a hit job. There were just too many people with reason to kill him to rule it our.

[AtheistMoFo]

Again, this is perhaps the most investigated attack of the last hundred years.

Is it possible the Israelis were behind the attacks?  Certainly.  But so far as has been seen, there are no hard connections.  And as I pointed out earlier, the putative logic used to analyze the potential Israeli connection is deeply flawed.

Coincidences aren't evidence.  Show me the money.  Show me a Mossad or other Israeli government organ  being involved in it.  

Coincidences are not only not "conclusive" proof, they are no proof at all.  Arguing otherwise is falling afoul of post hoc, ergo propter hoc.  Let's see laundry lists.  Let's see operative names, or faces, or bank account numbers.  

You're making an extraordinary claim; let's see extraordinary evidence.

Most investigated attack of the last hudred years?  Show us the evidence.  The ashes had not even cooled off yet when they began hauling away hundreds of thousands of tons of forensic evidence -- TO CHINA -- for recycling.

Bill Clinton's blowjob was more thoroughly investigated than 9/11.  And so was the space shuttle disaster ($14 million spent on investigating 9/11 as opposed to the $67 million devoted to investigating Clinton's blowjob or $30 million for the space shuttle disaster).  
//http://911review.com/coverup/commission.html

NIST claimed they found no evidence of controlled demolition.  Then someone thought to ask them if then looked.  The astonishing reply was that they did not!   :shock:   No wonder they found no evidence.  They didn't even bother to look!  What a surprise ( <-- sarcasm! )

Why do you insist on ME providing evidence for my claims (which I do), but you offer no evidence of your own?  I base my claim that the 9/11 Commission was set up to fail on the fact that BOTH co-chairmen SAID SO.  Google it.  "9/11 Commission set up to fail".
//https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_9/11_Commission

If you have evidence that 9/11 was the most investigated attack of the last hundred years, show us the evidence.  Or retract your claim if you can not.

As far as your claim of no hard connections to israel, why do you rule out the israelis on the grounds of there are no hard connections, yet you insist it was Osama bin Laden even though the FBI (and CIA, and InterPol, et al) said they had no hard evidence against bin Laden?  If no hard evidence is proof of israel's innocence, why is it not also proof of bin Laden's innocence?  Who is being a hypocrite?

My claims are no more extrordinary than yours.  Show me YOUR extraordinary evidence that bin Laden did it.

C'mon, now.  I showed you mine.  Now show us yours!