Israel and its history of false flag attacks

[Fidel_Castronaut]

It'd be much easier for the US or Israel to pull this off than for Al Qaeda.

Also, here's a list of people involved with the WTC towers and buildings surrounding it. Way, way, WAY too many coincidences.

Coincidences? Perhaps. Hard evidence? Not one iota.

People need to get over the myth that it was 'Al Qaeda' that perpatrated these attacks. I think the CIA and other intelligence forces found that it means 'base' and decided that everything stems from there.

al Qaeda hasn't been an international terrorist organisation capable of carrying out organised central attacks for decades. Arguably it never was. Mohammad Atta et al. recieved training and some further radicalisastion from some bases in Afghanistan, but that was about it. Very little of the attacks formative planning was known beyond the initial 'ok' at 'higher' levels in Al Qaeda's disorganised and fractured heirarchy.

But far from destroy the thesis that 12 or so guys could pull off an attack like this, it actually reinforces it. Their radicaliastion in places throughout the world (Atta was arguably radicalised as much in Germany as he was in Egypt) shows how deep routed their dislike of America and the 'West' was. Saying it was anything other than what it was completely dismisses the debate on why a seemingly normal, highly educated man went from sort of believer to hard radical. It's this debate we as a world need to have, not "but why did the building look like it was demolished" bollocks.

People wonder why these attacks occur? I point to 9/11 truthers and attribute as much blame to them as to the guys that carried out, because their sole MO is ensure these types of attacks occur again and again.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Conspiarcy theorists always ask questions without giving answers. It's always "But why building x fall like this, it must mean [insert nonsense]".

There's no substance to any of it. It's as thought just asking 'why' is all that's needed, and any further investigation is just dismissed when it doesn't give them the answer they want.

[stromboli]

Every country is guilty of atrocious behavior for the wrong reasons. The CIA was involved in removing a peaceful, democratically elected Muslim government in 1953, simply because they wanted to nationalize their oil industry. The Gulf of Tonkin resolution that got us into Vietnam with a full military commitment was based on what many analysts consider to be either a false flag action or else turning an accidental attack into a much greater incident than it was.

You are singling out one country as a villain in a world full of villainy. Whatever your motives, it comes across as anti Jewish. But in any way even considering that Jews are responsible for 9/11 is ludicrous.

[zarus tathra (OP)]

I'm singling out Israel because Israel is the only country known to have attacked a US Naval vessel after World War II. I'm singling out Israel because it has a history of trying to draw the US into its own wars.

I'm glad we can all agree that Al-Qaeda is probably a US/Israeli asset. "Al Qaeda" is a term for "Foreign toilet." The fact that they've chosen such a ridiculous name, plus the fact that it's a reference to a specifically FOREIGN toilet, helps to corroborate this belief.

[Shiranu]

I'm glad we can all agree that Al-Qaeda is probably a US/Israeli asset. "Al Qaeda" is a term for "Foreign toilet." The fact that they've chosen such a ridiculous name, plus the fact that it's a reference to a specifically FOREIGN toilet, helps to corroborate this belief.

Al-Qaeda = "The base, foundation".

While there is a phrase in Arabic that says you are going to go to the Al-Qaeda (toilet), that is still not remotely "foreign" toilet and its simply an example of a word having multiple meanings. Al = The, Qaeda = Base... where exactly are you getting "specifically foreign"?

Seriously, what the fuck are you smoking mate?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I'm glad we can all agree that Al-Qaeda is probably a US/Israeli asset. "Al Qaeda" is a term for "Foreign toilet." The fact that they've chosen such a ridiculous name, plus the fact that it's a reference to a specifically FOREIGN toilet, helps to corroborate this belief.

Wut?

Have you done any research into the origins of al Qaeda/contemporary Islamism per se or are you just making stuff up?

[zarus tathra (OP)]

Al-Qaeda is a word for Western-style toilet.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I don't read or speak Arabic, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your description is an extreme warping of literal/intended meanings.

But even so, I don't get how it supports your notion that 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy.

[Shiranu]

Al-Qaeda is a word for Western-style toilet.

From the guy who you are quoting...

What does the word "Al-Qaeda" mean ? In Arabic, The exact meaning is dependent on the context in which it is used.

What if I told you words have more than one meaning?



Glenn Beck approves of your points, but thinks you need to also say Hitler is Jewish, therefor aliens built the pyramid.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Al-Qaeda is a word for Western-style toilet.

From the guy who you are quoting...

What does the word "Al-Qaeda" mean ? In Arabic, The exact meaning is dependent on the context in which it is used.

What if I told you words have more than one meaning?

[ Image ]

Glenn Beck approves of your points, but thinks you need to also say Hitler is Jewish, therefor aliens built the pyramid.

I guess cherry picking is just the easier option.

[zarus tathra (OP)]

My argument basically hinges on heuristics.

First, Al-Qaeda being slang for "the toilet," specifically a Western toilet, points to them being

1. Fake, since no serious militant organization would call themselves "The Toilet"

2. Of foreign/Western, not necessarily Israeli or American, origin

Second, Israel has been attacking the US using "Islamic Fundamentalism" as a proxy since its inception. In the Lavon Affair, they bombed US, British, and Egyptian buildings and tried to frame the Muslim Brotherhood for these actions to get the British to station troops in the Suez Canal area. This is not conjecture. This is a matter of historical record.

Third, pretty much all the people involved with running the WTC towers and privatizing assets that would have been useful in preventing the attacks were Israelis/Zionists. Plus, they managed to avoid getting killed in the buildings they worked in. The man who owned the buildings ate breakfast at the Windows on the World cafe every morning from when he bought the 99 year lease on the towers to when the attacks came, but mysteriously forgot to do this the morning of 9/11. Same with his family members, who also worked in the towers but "couldn't come in" on that exact day.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

My argument basically hinges on heuristics.

First, Al-Qaeda being slang for "the toilet," specifically a Western toilet, points to them being

1. Fake, since no serious militant organization would call themselves "The Toilet"

Evidence to the contrary is so overwhelming as to make your theory effectively worthless, bordering on the insane.

A good book I can't recommend enough is the following by Jason Burke:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Al-Qaeda-True-S ... 0141031360

It's a great read by a journalist who spent years alongside various 'extreme' organizations and individuals from Kurdish territories in Iraq to the Taliban in Afghanistan.

As has been pointed out, Al Qaeda meaning "the toilet" is but one analysis of the name, one skewed very much by a seeming bias you have towards one perspective on history/reality. I can't argue this point with you if you insist on just believing whatever fits in with your own perspective.

2. Of foreign/Western, not necessarily Israeli or American, origin

An argument can be made for this in an indirect fashion, as one could postulate that AQ is reactive rather than proactive to perceived injustices, real or imaginary. But I suspect that this isn't what you mean.

Second, Israel has been attacking the US using "Islamic Fundamentalism" as a proxy since its inception. In the Lavon Affair, they bombed US, British, and Egyptian buildings and tried to frame the Muslim Brotherhood for these actions to get the British to station troops in the Suez Canal area. This is not conjecture. This is a matter of historical record.

Which, even if true (I'm not an expert on this), does thus equate to 9/11 being a false flag op. This sounds like you're grasping at straws in front of overwhelming evidence.

Third, pretty much all the people involved with running the WTC towers and privatizing assets that would have been useful in preventing the attacks were Israelis/Zionists. Plus, they managed to avoid getting killed in the buildings they worked in. The man who owned the buildings ate breakfast at the Windows on the World cafe every morning from when he bought the 99 year lease on the towers to when the attacks came, but mysteriously forgot to do this the morning of 9/11. Same with his family members, who also worked in the towers but "couldn't come in" on that exact day.

Conjecture, supposition.

No evidence, rather a lot of "but look, this happened SO IT MUST HAVE BEEN THIS!" Typical of most conspiracy theorists tactics, find (or imagine) patterns and then draw conclusions rather than consult the evidence.

Ignored.

[zarus tathra (OP)]

Which, even if true (I'm not an expert on this), does thus equate to 9/11 being a false flag op. This sounds like you're grasping at straws in front of overwhelming evidence.

Ummm the Lavon Affair was quoted in the first link I posted, which was a Wikipedia article posting information that is publicly known and acknowledged. All my information about the Lavon Affair is from that article.

The Information Underground link has reports of Israeli agents plotting to take down the Sears Tower. And a lot of other information that was posted there that I didn't repeat here.

Read the links. It's obvious that nobody clicked on them. It takes like 2 minutes to read them.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Which, even if true (I'm not an expert on this), does thus equate to 9/11 being a false flag op. This sounds like you're grasping at straws in front of overwhelming evidence.

Ummm the Lavon Affair was quoted in the first link I posted, which was a Wikipedia article posting information that is publicly known and acknowledged. All my information about the Lavon Affair is from that article.

The Information Underground link has reports of Israeli agents plotting to take down the Sears Tower. And a lot of other information that was posted there that I didn't repeat here.

Read the links. It's obvious that nobody clicked on them. It takes like 2 minutes to read them.

I don't need to read about an event at Suez to see the fallacious reasoning that it thus then follows that 9/11 was a false flag. You could be 100% right about the Lavon affair. In fact, I'll take you prima facie and say you are right. So what?

Have you read the link to the Al Qaeda book that I posted? Or are you not going to be swayed by the overwhelming evidence that suggests AQ is not an invention of Israel?

[zarus tathra (OP)]

Tell you what, I'll read every review of that book I can find, and you'll read this.

I don't need to read

'cmon, you can't REALLY be this much of a prick.