Author Topic: Israel and its history of false flag attacks  (Read 38278 times)

Offline Thumpalumpacus

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #105 on: January 19, 2014, 06:11:54 PM »
Quote from: "Shiranu"
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"
There are two things common to theists and CTers: they both have faith without evidence... oh wait, that makes only one thing in common... #-o

I'll admit, I think JFK  was the victim of a conspiracy.  I'm not automatically a refuter.  But I want better evidence than  a couple of guys leaving work early.

To be fair, in that situation there is VERY good motivation for multiple parties to off him... parties that had no problem offing other high ranking people throughout the world...

No doubt that that gives food to conspiracy theorists.  

I was just trying to make the point that as a skeptic, I prefer to examine actual facts on the ground, and try to put them into context.  I don't think context supports an "Israelis did it" theory behind WTC.  That means that the "facts", such as they are, had ought to be goddamned well golden.  And they're not.
<insert witty aphorism here>

Offline Thumpalumpacus

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #106 on: January 19, 2014, 06:29:09 PM »
Quote from: "AtheistMoFo"
Most investigated attack of the last hudred years?  Show me the evidence.  The ashes had not even cooled off yet when they began hauling away hundreds of thousands of tons of forensic evidence -- TO CHINA -- for recycling.

Bill Clinton's blowjob was more thoroughly investigated than 9/11.  And so was the space shuttle disaster ($14 million spent on investigating 9/11 as opposed to the $67 million devoted to investigating Clinton's blowjob or $30 million for the space shuttle disaster).  
http://http://911review.com/coverup/commission.html

If you accept dollar values as a determinant of investigative thoroughness, then sure, your point.  But the fact is that 9/11 skeptics have had over a decade in the Interwebz age to go over the evidence -- which is more profuse for it having happened in the information age -- and still can't come up with very much.

And I notice you haven't addressed my points about the political situation as it was in was in 2001.

Quote from: "AtheistMoFo"
NIST claimed they found no evidence of controlled demolition.  Then someone thought to ask them if then looked.  The astonishing reply was that they did not!   :shock:   No wonder they found no evidence.  They didn't even bother to look!  What a surprise ( <-- sarcasm! )

Rhetorical point, sure.  But do you have evidence it was controlled? After all, it is you making the claim.

Quote from: "AtheistMoFo"
Why do you insist on ME providing evidence for my claims (which I do), but you offer no evidence of your own?  I base my claim that the 9/11 Commission was set up to fail on the fact that BOTH co-chairmen SAID SO.  Google it.  "9/11 Commission set up to fail".
http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_9/11_Commission

I base my claim that 9/11 was done by Arab terrorists on the fact that Arab terrorists were, you know, on the airplanes; we have recorded phone calls verifying that.

Quote from: "AtheistMoFo"
As far as your claim of no hard connections to israel, why do you rule out the israelis on the grounds of there are no hard connections, yet you insist it was Osama bin Laden even though the FBI (and CIA, and InterPol, et al) said they had no hard evidence against bin Laden?  If no hard evidence is proof of israel's innocence, why is it not also proof of bin Laden's innocence?  Who is being a hypocrite?

Well, firstly, I haven't called anyone a "hypocrite", so I'm not sure why you're using this sort of rhetoric, unless you're trying to use a subtle ad hom to carry an argument that really doesn't suffice otherwise.

I've already explained why I don't think the Israelis did it.  I didn't "rule them out" insofar as my rejection of your "theory" was not out-of-hand, but rather, as shown already, based on understading the way that international politics works.  Biting the hand that feeds you only works when the bite is worth more than the food.

Quote from: "AtheistMoFo"
My claims are no more extrordinary than yours.  Show me YOUR extraordinary evidence that bin Laden did it.

C'mon, now.  I showed you mine.  Now show us yours!

The fact is that the connections between the 19 Arabs on those planes, and bin Laden is well documented. The evidence is not extraordinary; it is as mundane as cash transfers.

But -- your claims are more extraordinary, because while I'm asking you to believe that an enemy of the US attakcked the US, you're asking everyone to believe that a putative US ally attacked the US.  There is a qualitative difference in our claims based on that simple fact.

You are asking people to believe that Israel would risk four biliion dollars per annum assistance, and world opprobrium, in this attack.  I am asking people to believe that people believe that militant Arabs who hate America attacked America.

That is why your claim is extraordinary.

Occam's Razor, and all that.
<insert witty aphorism here>

Offline Shiranu

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #107 on: January 19, 2014, 06:33:53 PM »
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
I was just trying to make the point that as a skeptic, I prefer to examine actual facts on the ground, and try to put them into context.  I don't think context supports an "Israelis did it" theory behind WTC.  That means that the "facts", such as they are, had ought to be goddamned well golden.  And they're not.

Oh no, I completely agree. I don't think there is even remotely enough motivation, much less evidence, to link Israel at all.

Also... I typed Italia 3 times trying to type Israel. Genius, Shiranui. Genius.
“The great appear great to us only because we are on our knees. LET US ARISE!” - "The Rebel", Texas' Premier Socialist Newspaper, 1892

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #108 on: January 19, 2014, 09:43:42 PM »
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
Rhetorical point, sure.  But do you have evidence it was controlled? After all, it is you making the claim.
Yes I do.  Freefall!

WTC 7 fell at freefall acceleration and that is proof of controlled demolition.  So based on controlled demolition, which can not be rigged in a matter of only a few hours, there had to be insiders at the WTC.  Who were they?  Why have they not been caught?

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
I base my claim that 9/11 was done by Arab terrorists on the fact that Arab terrorists were, you know, on the airplanes; we have recorded phone calls verifying that.
First of all, I never said Arab terrorists were not on the airplane.  I have doubts about the official conspiracy theory that Osama bin Laden and a bunch of cave dwellers pulled it off without a little help from their friends on the inside.My whole argument is that there were more accomplices than we know about, and it is possible that some of them are israelis.  You are claiming that Arab terrorsts and ONLY Arab terrorists pulled it off.  I do not deny that Arab terrorists may have been a part of the scheme.  But WTC 7 was demolished -- controlled demolition.  That means somebody had to rig the demolition.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
I've already explained why I don't think the Israelis did it.  I didn't "rule them out" insofar as my rejection of your "theory" was not out-of-hand, but rather, as shown already, based on understading the way that international politics works.  Biting the hand that feeds you only works when the bite is worth more than the food.
Or if you feel confident of not getting caught.


Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
The fact is that the connections between the 19 Arabs on those planes, and bin Laden is well documented. The evidence is not extraordinary; it is as mundane as cash transfers.
Flogging a dead horse again, are we?  For the umpteenth time, I am not saying bin Laden and the cave men are innocent beyond all doubt.  I say there is no more hard evidence proving their guilt than there is of israeli covert operators.  The fact that 19 Arabs were on those planes is no more proof of their guilt than the flight crews being on the planes.

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #109 on: January 19, 2014, 09:53:32 PM »
Since I am sure that someone is going to deny the obvious fact that freefall proves WTC 7 was pulled in a controlled demolition, I have just started a new discussion of this matter.  All followers of the current topic invited to participate.

Is Freefall Proof of Controlled Demolition?
http://http://atheistforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&p=988491#p988491

Offline Shiranu

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #110 on: January 19, 2014, 10:26:48 PM »
Quote
I have doubts about the official conspiracy theory that Osama bin Laden and a bunch of cave dwellers...

>Jewish Motherfuckers
>Arab Cave Dwellers



This guy lol.
“The great appear great to us only because we are on our knees. LET US ARISE!” - "The Rebel", Texas' Premier Socialist Newspaper, 1892

Offline stromboli

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #111 on: January 19, 2014, 10:41:54 PM »
Don't know if this has been mentioned
http://majorityrights.com/weblog/commen ... er_on_911/

As I pointed out, Jews represent about 1/400th of world population. By that number, if 18% of the people killed were Jewish, then the numbers far exceed a representative number percentage wise.

There is no question who was flying the airplanes in the four hijackings. No Jews in any of the group. If you assume that Jewish sources somehow knew that the attacks would take place and then coordinate a planned demolition of the building, good luck.

Also, planned demolition requires a great deal of deconstruction and an enormous amount of explosives. It would take a huge effort and considerable amount of time in both buildings to install all of that. I guarantee that you would never prove that large an amount of explosives could surreptitiously be installed over any period of time to effect that level of destruction.

Offline Thumpalumpacus

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #112 on: January 20, 2014, 02:27:06 PM »
Quote from: "AtheistMoFo"
WTC 7 fell at freefall acceleration and that is proof of controlled demolition.

No, it is not, as I have also pointed out in your thread you've started.  It is only proof of a sudden removal of structural support, and says absolutely nothing about what cause(s) that may have.



Quote
Flogging a dead horse again, are we?  For the umpteenth time, I am not saying bin Laden and the cave men are innocent beyond all doubt.  I say there is no more hard evidence proving their guilt than there is of israeli covert operators.  The fact that 19 Arabs were on those planes is no more proof of their guilt than the flight crews being on the planes.

Except that there is, in the form of bank records showing funding from AQ, which was used to offset living expenses as well as fund their attendance to a flight school -- that's a pretty direct link, don't you agree?

Also, I prefer to avoid sarcasm in discussions like this because it tends to introduce more heat than light into the talk.  I'd like to be treated with the same courtesy I'm showing.

Lastly, perhaps you should consider how your derogatory remarks about both Jews and Arabs say something about you whether you like it or not.
<insert witty aphorism here>

Offline stromboli

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #113 on: January 20, 2014, 02:38:16 PM »
It's been more than 10 years, and every claim you make will never be substantiated and you are wasting brain power on a pointless endeavor. Get on with your life.

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #114 on: January 20, 2014, 05:26:00 PM »
Proof that the Jews are controlling the world:

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion


 :Hangman:

Offline zarus tathra

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #115 on: February 02, 2014, 01:54:28 PM »
From the POV of the people presenting the evidence, the claims for the most part HAVE been substantiated; all that's left is for people like you to stop stonewalling like Christians.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Offline zarus tathra

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #116 on: February 02, 2014, 04:36:21 PM »
here

and

here

They did some pretty evil, sneaky shit even without 9/11
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Offline zarus tathra

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #117 on: February 02, 2014, 09:12:08 PM »
This "underground" website provides dozens of links to Haaretz and Cnn et al and makes a clear distinction between Israelis and American Jews.
?"Belief is always most desired, most pressingly needed, when there is a lack of will." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Ideals are imperfect. Morals are self-serving.

Offline GrinningYMIR

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #118 on: February 02, 2014, 09:20:07 PM »
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"
Yeah, like every sovereign country they committed atrocities and they still do. You realise that the only people on earth who are brainwashed to think that Israelis in danger to be wiped out and that must be protected are Americans, right? The big banana republic and its free citizens. Israel is a rabid dog for the rest of the world with its war politics. Just like USA. Everyone knows what the fuck it is.



:arrow: Now, what I want to know is the motivation and the big plan that Israeli 9/11 supposed to be the part of. What's that? What step it represents? What is the gain? What's the logic?


My country is controlled by the elite who use commercialism and propaganda to brainwash the public into doing their bidding while also creating dozens of conflicts across the world in order to generate funds for their multi-national corporations.

Elite theory + a little bit of hyperpluralism+ no small dose of 1984

Great time to be an American
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Offline Hydra009

Re: Israel and its history of false flag attacks
« Reply #119 on: February 03, 2014, 02:42:30 AM »
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"
Israelis and Jews are behind 9/11?! What the fuck is this? Is there anything else left these people didn't do?
Well, there isn't a conspiracy theory that the Jews are behind antisemitic conspiracy theories...yet...

But yeah, they're scapegoat-fodder for political nutters like gays are for religious nutters.  It's a shame, really.  But the tinfoil folks have to have some outside group to blame and they're a pretty high profile but small group.  Oh well, at least it takes the heat off the Illuminati and Freemasons.  All these minority groups are all so frightening and dangerous and subversive.  Turn around and they stab you in the back...