Atheists "Don't Have To Live Here"- Fox News

Started by stromboli, September 07, 2013, 11:07:24 AM

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Bobbotov

Quote from: "Hydra009"
Quote from: "Bobbotov"Atheists should live in Japan, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic or even England. All of those countries have high secularism or are non-Christian and strangely enough, have very low crime rates compared to the USA.
But wouldn't that just mean less atheists for the rest of the world?   :-k

Not sure I understand that statement. It would be the same number just redeployed.
___________________________________________________
It is easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled. [/color]
M. Twain

Hydra009

Quote from: "Hydra009"
Quote from: "Bobbotov"Atheists should live in Japan, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic or even England. All of those countries have high secularism or are non-Christian and strangely enough, have very low crime rates compared to the USA.
But wouldn't that just mean less atheists for the rest of the world?   :-k
If you have 9 baskets and 1 apple in each one, and you put all the apples in 3 baskets divided evenly, how many apples are in each basket?

Colanth

Quote from: "Bobbotov"Atheists should live in Japan, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic or even England. All of those countries have high secularism or are non-Christian
They just happen to be.  The US is legally mandated to be a secular nation, regardless of the delusions of Christians to the contrary.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Bobbotov

Quote from: "Hydra009"
Quote from: "Hydra009"
Quote from: "Bobbotov"Atheists should live in Japan, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic or even England. All of those countries have high secularism or are non-Christian and strangely enough, have very low crime rates compared to the USA.
But wouldn't that just mean less atheists for the rest of the world?   :-k
If you have 9 baskets and 1 apple in each one, and you put all the apples in 3 baskets divided evenly, how many apples are in each basket?

Well, if each basket represents a country then 9 represents the world in your example. If you redistribute them then you still only have 9 apples in the world. If you are saying that redistribution limits or eliminates atheist in some countries that is true but the total number in the world regardless of countries ostensibly would remain the same.
___________________________________________________
It is easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled. [/color]
M. Twain

Bobbotov

Quote from: "Colanth"
Quote from: "Bobbotov"Atheists should live in Japan, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic or even England. All of those countries have high secularism or are non-Christian
They just happen to be.  The US is legally mandated to be a secular nation, regardless of the delusions of Christians to the contrary.

However, the Christians (who are completely unaware of their delusion) in this country equate nationalism with religion - God and country. Several polls have shown that atheists are considered the most untrustworthy and least electable and you will not see a politician aver they are an atheist. Instead they pander to the religious populace. I think it is fair to say that the religious in this country have much influence on politics, education, and civil rights so as to obviate its secular foundation. If we were really secular then religions should be taxed.
___________________________________________________
It is easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled. [/color]
M. Twain

Jutter

This is just oldfashioned fascist and poorly disguised censorship. If you don't live in the USA you shouldn't concern yourself with it's policies, and if you do live in the USA it's like it or leave it. Either way they want you to shut up.

Unless you're eligable for asylum, emigration is not a casually available option. Even moving to another place within your own town can be expensive and logisticly daunting enough.
No religion for me thank you very much; I 'm full of shit enough as it is.

Being flabbergasted about existence never made anyone disappear in a poof of flabbergas, so nevermind why we're here. We ARE here.

Colanth

Quote from: "Bobbotov"Several polls have shown that atheists are considered the most untrustworthy and least electable and you will not see a politician aver they are an atheist.
Aver they are?  Any politician who doesn't actively aver that s/he is a theist is unelectable.  Have you seen the nonsense about Hillary Clinton's Twitter account?

QuoteI think it is fair to say that the religious in this country have much influence on politics, education, and civil rights so as to obviate its secular foundation.
And that's exactly what we have to keep fighting against.

QuoteIf we were really secular then religions should be taxed.
If we were really secular, the churches wouldn't be taxed, but they wouldn't get involved in politics either.  (Or they'd be given their choice - one political word and you go on the tax rolls.)  Remember, the power to tax is the power to control, and we don't want government controlling religion (or the other way around).
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Colanth

Quote from: "Jutter"This is just oldfashioned fascist and poorly disguised censorship. If you don't live in the USA you shouldn't concern yourself with it's policies, and if you do live in the USA it's like it or leave it.
Which is why we countered with "love it or change it" back in the 60s.  Schurz did NOT say "my country, right or wrong".
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Bobbotov

Quote from: "Colanth"If we were really secular, the churches wouldn't be taxed, but they wouldn't get involved in politics either.  (Or they'd be given their choice - one political word and you go on the tax rolls.)  Remember, the power to tax is the power to control, and we don't want government controlling religion (or the other way around).

I think it falls into the Biblical category of rendering unto Caesar. However, I do agree that if they are not taxed then there should be extremely strict controls of them not using their tax free money for political purposes. De facto there is already an IRS law precluding churches from actively supporting politicians or political movements. They still have free speech but are disallowed from the following:

...organizations may not do such things as make statements that endorse or oppose a candidate, publish or distribute campaign literature, or make any type of contribution, monetary or otherwise, to a political campaign. On the other hand, IRC § 501(c)(3) organizations are allowed to conduct activities that are not related to elections, such as issue advocacy, lobbying for or against legislation, and supporting or opposing the appointment of individuals to non-elective offices.
___________________________________________________
It is easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled. [/color]
M. Twain

Hydra009

Quote from: "Bobbotov"Well, if each basket represents a country then 9 represents the world in your example. If you redistribute them then you still only have 9 apples in the world. If you are saying that redistribution limits or eliminates atheist in some countries that is true but the total number in the world regardless of countries ostensibly would remain the same.
](*,)

Oookay.  Guess I'm just going to have to go ahead and tell ya.  If atheists leave the US, there are less atheists in the US.  Follow me?  Dear IPU, please tell me you do.

But here's the kicker - considering that we're trying to get this place on track to one day be like Sweden or Japan (at least, in terms of religiosity and religion in the public square), moving out might not actually be a good idea in the long run.

[spoil:31x3t2r3]Our mission - blend in with the indigenous life, analyze their weaknesses, prepare the planet for the coming madness, yay.[/spoil:31x3t2r3]

Colanth

Quote from: "Bobbotov"
Quote from: "Colanth"If we were really secular, the churches wouldn't be taxed, but they wouldn't get involved in politics either.  (Or they'd be given their choice - one political word and you go on the tax rolls.)  Remember, the power to tax is the power to control, and we don't want government controlling religion (or the other way around).

I think it falls into the Biblical category of rendering unto Caesar. However, I do agree that if they are not taxed then there should be extremely strict controls of them not using their tax free money for political purposes. De facto there is already an IRS law precluding churches from actively supporting politicians or political movements. They still have free speech but are disallowed from the following:

...organizations may not do such things as make statements that endorse or oppose a candidate, publish or distribute campaign literature, or make any type of contribution, monetary or otherwise, to a political campaign. On the other hand, IRC § 501(c)(3) organizations are allowed to conduct activities that are not related to elections, such as issue advocacy, lobbying for or against legislation, and supporting or opposing the appointment of individuals to non-elective offices.
But they maintain that what's said from the pulpit, even if it's an order to the parishioners to vote for a particular candidate under penalty of hell, is part of the religion, not anything that violates that regulation.  (Some of them have claimed that the regulation violates freedom of religion, so it can't be enforced.)

De jure (which is what we have - a law) is nice, but it's meaningless if it's not defacto.  If no one was arrested for killing people, laws against murder would be ludicrous.  If churches aren't prevented from political action, that IRS regulation is ludicrous.  (And, whatever else, no one in government wants to be seen going against Jesus.)
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Bobbotov

Quote from: "Hydra009"Oookay.  Guess I'm just going to have to go ahead and tell ya.  If atheists leave the US, there are less atheists in the US.  Follow me?  Dear IPU, please tell me you do.

What part of this sentence..."If you are saying that redistribution limits or eliminates atheist in some countries that is true...". did you not understand? I was agreeing with you.
___________________________________________________
It is easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled. [/color]
M. Twain

Bobbotov

Quote from: "Colanth"If churches aren't prevented from political action, that IRS regulation is ludicrous.  (And, whatever else, no one in government wants to be seen going against Jesus.)

Well, perhaps this will give some glimmer of hope. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
___________________________________________________
It is easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled. [/color]
M. Twain

Smartmarzipan

Oh, is it time for FoxNews bi-monthly witch hunt against atheists again? I must have lost track of the time....

Stay tuned for the Godless War on Christmas in a few months!
Legi, Intellexi, Condemnavi.

"Religion is the human response to being alive and having to die." ~Anon

Inter arma enim silent leges

Mister Agenda

I predict it will begin by the first week of November.
Atheists are not anti-Christian. They are anti-stupid.--WitchSabrina