Author Topic: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights  (Read 4027 times)

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2013, 08:02:15 AM »
Quote from: "Shiranu"
They wouldn't find as many criminals in white neighbourhoods?

I take it you haven't been to Wall Street then...
 Sure, but they're just 1% and real nice when they take your money.

Offline Nonsensei

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2013, 09:26:41 AM »
Jack89 did you just characterize police racism as a conspiracy?
And on the wings of a dream so far beyond reality
All alone in desperation now the time has come
Lost inside you\'ll never find, lost within my own mind
Day after day this misery must go on

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2013, 10:12:32 AM »
People who have done nothing wrong should not be subjected to search. I feel the same way about DUI checkpoints. Unreasonable search.
???  ??

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2013, 10:58:28 AM »
Quote from: "Jmpty"
People who have done nothing wrong should not be subjected to search. I feel the same way about DUI checkpoints. Unreasonable search.
I agree.

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2013, 11:11:37 AM »
Quote from: "Nonsensei"
Jack89 did you just characterize police racism as a conspiracy?
Not at all.  I haven't even discounted the possibility of racism on their part.  I was referring to your view on the stats they provided.

Offline Nonsensei

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2013, 11:20:46 AM »
Quote from: "Jack89"
Quote from: "Nonsensei"
Jack89 did you just characterize police racism as a conspiracy?
Not at all.  I haven't even discounted the possibility of racism on their part.  I was referring to your view on the stats they provided.

Except I didn't say it was a conspiracy, I was describing how the statistics can become skewed naturally due to the racist practices of the NYPD.
And on the wings of a dream so far beyond reality
All alone in desperation now the time has come
Lost inside you\'ll never find, lost within my own mind
Day after day this misery must go on

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2013, 12:12:52 PM »
Quote from: "Nonsensei"
Quote from: "Jack89"
Quote from: "Nonsensei"
Jack89 did you just characterize police racism as a conspiracy?
Not at all.  I haven't even discounted the possibility of racism on their part.  I was referring to your view on the stats they provided.

Except I didn't say it was a conspiracy, I was describing how the statistics can become skewed naturally due to the racist practices of the NYPD.
Assuming they're racist practices to begin with.

Offline Nonsensei

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2013, 01:47:39 PM »
Quote from: "Jack89"
Assuming they're racist practices to begin with.

Its no assumption that racism is rampant in the NYPD. A 3 second google search would show you that.
And on the wings of a dream so far beyond reality
All alone in desperation now the time has come
Lost inside you\'ll never find, lost within my own mind
Day after day this misery must go on

Offline Colanth

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2013, 05:17:58 PM »
Quote from: "Shiranu"
They wouldn't find as many criminals in white neighbourhoods?

I take it you haven't been to Wall Street then...
The police?  No, since SEC violations are outside their jurisdiction.  There's not much crime that's within their jurisdiction in the Wall Street area.  (Maybe some panhandling, purse-snatching and pocket picking.  Lots of illegal parking.)
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Offline Colanth

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2013, 05:22:10 PM »
Quote from: "Nonsensei"
Its no assumption that racism is rampant in the NYPD. A 3 second google search would show you that.
A 3 second Google search will show you that racism is rampant in the US, but if you live here, you'll know that it doesn't pervade everyday life as much as a Google search can make it appear.

Are there racist cops in NYC?  Sure.  There are racists in ANY group of 33,000 people.  Is racism "rampant" in NYPD?  No more so than it is among the 8.2 million population of the city.  I'm more concerned with cops who think they're above the law.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Offline Nonsensei

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2013, 05:39:08 PM »
Quote from: "Colanth"
Quote from: "Nonsensei"
Its no assumption that racism is rampant in the NYPD. A 3 second google search would show you that.
A 3 second Google search will show you that racism is rampant in the US, but if you live here, you'll know that it doesn't pervade everyday life as much as a Google search can make it appear.

Are there racist cops in NYC?  Sure.  There are racists in ANY group of 33,000 people.  Is racism "rampant" in NYPD?  No more so than it is among the 8.2 million population of the city.  I'm more concerned with cops who think they're above the law.

Thats a presumption based on some shaky logic, namely that the NYPD is indistinguishable from any other group of people. In reality, the police have power. The more power you give an person the more of a tyrant he becomes. He becomes emboldened to take action on his prejudices. Prejudices that are developed by regularly being exposed to the absolute worst a given community has to offer in the course of doing his job.

I think the ethical burn out limit for NYPD officers is remarkably low and it never recovers. New cops get on the job, see ethnic people doing nasty shit for a couple months, and whitewash the whole community. A force of empowered bigots.
And on the wings of a dream so far beyond reality
All alone in desperation now the time has come
Lost inside you\'ll never find, lost within my own mind
Day after day this misery must go on

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2013, 09:49:01 PM »
Quote from: "Nonsensei"
Quote from: "Jack89"
Assuming they're racist practices to begin with.

Its no assumption that racism is rampant in the NYPD. A 3 second google search would show you that.
I looked and saw quite a few cases, but there are 23,000 plus New York Cops and just under half of them are white.  Even if there were 50 or 100 instances of racist cops it doesn't even come close to being a department-wide problem.  

You may be right, but at this point all you have is anecdotes and speculation.  All I'm saying is that with the extremely high rate of black and Hispanic crime, there's a reasonable argument that it's not racism.

I think a better decision would have been to assure that there is reasonable suspicion before a stop and frisk occurs.  Make sure that happens and the discrimination piece is easier to address.

Offline mykcob4

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2013, 11:25:18 PM »
The Daily Show had the best comment. Open link and watch the video.

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Offline Atheon

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2013, 11:37:05 PM »
Just walking along the street, or being black, or wearing a hood, or speaking Spanish... these do not amount to the standard of reasonable suspicion. Police shouldn't have the authority to just stop and search anyone they please at any time. There has to be reasonable suspicion.

The ruling is correct. The US was not intended to be an authoritarian police state.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Offline Atheon

Re: Judge Rules NYPD Stop-and-Frisk Practice Violates Rights
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2013, 11:42:53 PM »
Quote from: "Colanth"
A 3 second Google search will show you that racism is rampant in the US, but if you live here, you'll know that it doesn't pervade everyday life as much as a Google search can make it appear.
That depends in great part on the color of one's skin.

I've never experienced racism in the US that was directed at me, because I'm white. I have seen racism directed at minorities by whites on more occasions than I care to count.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

 

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