Michael Shermer accused of raping woman at conference

[Valigarmander]

First of all, read this post by PZ Myers on Pharyngula:

I'm dyin' here, people. It's like people trust me or something.

So I've been given this rather...explosive...information. It's a direct report of unethical behavior by a big name in the skeptical community (yeah, like that hasn't been happening a lot lately), and it's straight from the victim's mouth. And it's bad. Really bad.

She's torn up about it. It's been a few years, so no law agency is going to do anything about it now; she reported it to an organization at the time, and it was dismissed. Swept under the rug. Ignored. I can imagine her sense of futility. She's also afraid that the person who assaulted her before could try to hurt her again.

But at the same time, she doesn't want this to happen to anyone else, so she'd like to get the word out there. So she hands the information to me. Oh, thanks.

Now I've been sitting here trying to resolve my dilemma — to reveal it or not — and goddamn it, what's dominating my head isn't the consequences, but the question of what is the right thing to do. Do I stand up for the one who has no recourse, no way out, no other option to help others, or do I shelter the powerful big name guy from an accusation I can't personally vouch for, except to say that I know the author, and that she's not trying to acquire notoriety (she wants her name kept out of it)?

I've got to do what I've got to do, I can do no other. I will again emphasize, though, that I have no personal, direct evidence that the event occurred as described; all I can say is that the author is known to me, and she has also been vouched for by one other person I trust. The author is not threatening her putative assailant with any action, but is solely concerned that other women be aware of his behavior. The only reason she has given me this information is that she has no other way to act.

With that, I cast this grenade away from me...

"At a conference, Mr. Shermer coerced me into a position where I could not consent, and then had sex with me. I can't give more details than that, as it would reveal my identity, and I am very scared that he will come after me in some way. But I wanted to share this story in case it helps anyone else ward off a similar situation from happening. I reached out to one organization that was involved in the event at which I was raped, and they refused to take my concerns seriously. Ever since, I've heard stories about him doing things (5 different people have directly told me they did the same to them) and wanted to just say something and warn people, and I didn't know how. I hope this protects someone."

Boom.

So right now there is no proof this happened. But Myers says the woman is someone he knows, and that she has been vouched for by another person he trusts. In any case, this is something that should be taken seriously. If true, this is... very, very big.

[surly74]

This may be true, it may not be but I lost all respect for Myers after he ranted about sexual harrassment then goes on stage and does it to a woman while talking about evolution. He's gone from interesting speaker to someone who isn't worth a damn if you don't agree with him or someone he likes.

he allows people to play the victim card far too often. Instead of doing the right thing and directing this woman to speak to authorities, even if he's made the decision that no law agency is going to do anything...let them decide, he needs to do the right thing. posting it on his blog and basically convicting someone in the court of public opinion isn't right.

all of these people are self fullfilling prophecies when it comes to sexual harrasment at these events.

[AtheistExile]

Michael Shermer is one of my favorite atheists and skeptics. My opinion of PZ is not as glowing. And now that he has irresponsibly impugned the character and reputation of Shermer, he's feces to me.

His claim that the anonymous woman had no recourse is pure crap. It begs the question: Why the hell didn't she go to the police? She should have called the cops immediately, while Shermer was still around and evidence was fresh. Her failure to do so compromises official efforts to gather evidence.

If Shermer truly is a rapist, he should be punished no differently than any other convicted rapist.

But if Shermer is innocent, then PZ and this mystery woman should be arrested and/or sued for character assassination, bearing false witness and whatever else Shermer can make stick in a court of law.

PZ's Pharyngula blog is a bastion of political correctitude, dominated by the extreme left. They are having a field day with this. They remind me of a pack of hyenas. As PZ fans, they support him, of course, and pay no attention to the reputation of Shermer.

Coming into this quagmire, Shermer was generally much more respected than PZ. Coming out of it, one of the two will have no respect at all. If Shermer is innocent, then PZ should face legal charges and be ostracized for the slandering attention-whore he will have proven himself to be.

[LikelyToBreak]

I'm going to reserve my opinion on this matter, until more information comes out about it.  If it is true, then maybe some others will come forward.  They did when former President Clinton was accused of rape.  

I did a little research and found that false accusations of rape are rarer than I thought.  I had heard before that 85% of supposed rape victims later dropped the charges or recanted.  But, the FBI seems to say otherwise:

FBI statistics

FBI reports from 1996 consistently put the number of "unfounded" rape accusations around 8%. In contrast, the average rate of unfounded reports for "Index crimes" tracked by the FBI is 2%.

However, "unfounded" is not synonymous with false allegation. Bruce Gross of the Forensic Examiner says that:

    This statistic is almost meaningless, as many of the jurisdictions from which the FBI collects data on crime use different definitions of, or criteria for, "unfounded." That is, a report of rape might be classified as unfounded (rather than as forcible rape) if the alleged victim did not try to fight off the suspect, if the alleged perpetrator did not use physical force or a weapon of some sort, if the alleged victim did not sustain any physical injuries, or if the alleged victim and the accused had a prior sexual relationship. Similarly, a report might be deemed unfounded if there is no physical evidence or too many inconsistencies between the accuser's statement and what evidence does exist. As such, although some unfounded cases of rape may be false or fabricated, not all unfounded cases are false.
//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

This could still be a jilted lover, or a jealous correspondent though, so I am going to wait to see what plays out.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I hope it isn't true.  

Also, Myers  apparently didn't conceive of a third option, namely, keeping his gob shut until an investigation had laid bare the facts in the case.

And his blog is indeed a pack of PC lemmings.

[surly74]

if you do any reading about these different conferences there is a rift in just how much sexual harrassment goes on. on the Myers side you'd think women going to a skeptics or atheist conference are going into a rape den (do they exist? house of rape?).

but this is what hurst accusations like this...for anyone accused. People are trying to take the high road and say they are going to reserve judgement until facts come out? what happens if they don't? will you always see Shermer now as someone that MAY have raped a woman?

The question of "If Shermer is innocent"...well he is innocent, until proven guilty. I would want that standard if I was ever accused of something like this. I wouldn't want to be convictd in the court of public opinion because of something I can't control.

this seems a little schetchy.

At a conference, Mr. Shermer coerced me into a position where I could not consent, and then had sex with me

[Seabear]

IMO, PZM has placed himself in a precarious legal situation if this isn't true and cannot be proven. You simply cannot name someone and accuse them of committing a serious crime, while at the same time keeping the accuser anonymous and protecting her desire for privacy.

 And at this point, so long after the fact, it will be difficult if not impossible to substantiate the claims. And therein lies the problem for PZ and his mystery woman: this is defamation, either intentionally or unwittingly constructed so as to be immune to rebuttal by Shermer. Unfortunately for PZ, it doesn't work that way. now that he has written this, he is open to libel, and may be compelled by a judge to reveal the identity of this "mystery woman" who confided in him, should Shermer seek legal action. She is either an accomplice in the defamation, being misrepresented by PZ (in which case he may be open to legal action from her as well), or a fabrication.

In either case, you cannot just stand up in a public forum and declare someone committed a serious crime years earlier, and you aren't seeking legal action - you "just want to get it off your chest", and expect no repercussions. That's bullshit, friends and neighbors.

I might also point out that PZ is very careful in how he constructs his written accusation - specifically "Shermer coerced me into a position where I could not consent, and then had sex with me". That is open to an extremely wide variety of interpretations.

Mark my words, this will all fall apart, and will likely explode in PZM's face.

[SGOS]

I think this sounds an awful lot like gossip:  "You know, I wasn't really there, and I don't know if it's true, but I heard from so and so that bla bla bla."  Usually, it's done behind people's backs, but in a public setting, it's inappropriate.  You take stuff like this to the police.

[surly74]

I think this sounds an awful lot like gossip:  "You know, I wasn't really there, and I don't know if it's true, but I heard from so and so that bla bla bla."  Usually, it's done behind people's backs, but in a public setting, it's not inappropriate.  You take stuff like this to the police.

it is, but Myers couldn't live with himself [s:35b6vbxr]having hersay information like this and running with it[/s:35b6vbxr] being silent.

[hillbillyatheist]

some of those comments scare me. Some straight up advocating that any accusation of rape be unquestioned. As if there aren't psychotic women out there that would falsely accuse a man of a rape. innocent till proven guilty? not to PZ and his idiot followers.

[SGOS]

What's going on in the atheist world lately?  I can't remember the author who recently published a book called The Bonobo and the Atheist, where he claims to be an atheist and then spends a great deal of the book (which is supposed to be about bonobos) attacking Richard Dawkins on some irrelevant point about atheism.

There does seem to be a recent atheist movement, and a few of the old timers got involved and found themselves thrust to the forefront of the public consciousness.  Now the lesser known atheists seem to be wanting a part of the action, but the only thing they can offer seems like professional jealousy.

Well, I suppose it's human nature to want to make a name for yourself, but I'd really like to see these people making an actual contribution to the cause.  But I can't control what others do.

[Nonsensei]

One of the assertions of atheism plus, of which PZ is a founding member, is that sexual harassment is rife at atheist conferences. Many people rejected that assertion and atheism plus has since become a polarized entity that hasn't gained the traction they hoped for.

Now all of a sudden some unidentified woman he knows got raped at an atheist event by a big name male skeptic. He has no proof and it happened too long ago to legally pursue. So in essence he has given us nothing.

Someone earlier in this thread said false accusations of rape are rare. That may be true among the normal population. PZ and his ilk are not the normal population. They have an agenda, and they are not afraid to engage in unethical activity to promote it. If you want to know more just watch some of Thunderf00t's videos on atheism plus. There is one in particular where he reveals the content of private emails from the atheism plus private mailing list (which they forgot to remove him from) in which they advocate calling people's jobs to get them fired and other really nasty shit.

I absolutely believe that they would fabricate a story about an act this serious in order to get attention and convert people to their way of thinking. PZ's ethics melt into nothing in pursuit of his goals. Its a proven reality that he cannot be trusted.

[SGOS]

Now all of a sudden some unidentified woman he knows got raped at an atheist event by a big name male skeptic. He has no proof and it happened too long ago to legally pursue. So in essence he has given us nothing.

That rather puts my thoughts in a nutshell.  He has given us nothing.

[the_antithesis]

I do think it's not very classy of Myers to air this out in the court of public opinion, which is disturbingly fickle and breathtakingly stupid, but can still be damaging. Also, fuck him for couching this as being the only only responsible thing he can do, because it is very irresponsible. This is effectively gossip Unsubstantiated rumor. Would anyone be applauding him if he had said that such-and-such female was a slut? Not that Shermer should get away with it if it is true. But there's due process and then there's what creationists do. Congratulations, Myers. Welcome to the other side.

[aitm]

I have never spent a moment on either of their works or opinions so as far as I am concerned, Frank Farmer from fucksville said Tim Trapper from smucksville did..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz