Author Topic: Porn/Depiction of Women  (Read 5414 times)

Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2013, 07:10:35 AM »
Certainly sex depicted in porn is unrealistic to the sex off camera in daily life. And like any other industry there can be assholes who exploit girls/women. Having said that, the sex acts should not be the issue, but exploitation.

I am all for porn that is mutual where everyone has a say involved and safety is the issue.

But I do get down on people who say it should never exist at all. It depends for the reasons I stated above. I don't think anyone, male or female should get into it because they were abused, or to support a drug habit nor should anyone exploit another human. But I have no problem with well regulated porn.

Nothing to me is either/or. It depends on HOW it is being done.
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Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2013, 07:20:14 AM »
Some women argue that porn allows for a disproportionate view of the female........ that porn typically depicts her in a way not necessarily natural (natural = real life) - and while I can kind of see their point I also see porn as fantasy based. Since it's more to satisfy fantasy and not really about real life - then fantasy allows that it is harmless.  Does it objectify women? Maybe.  But only for the man/woman who has trouble separating real life from fantasy in the first place.  There's no controlling that.  And monitoring fantasy isn't exactly a public issue but rather a private one.  
Instead of looking to porn as the problem I suspect people rarely consider what might happen IF porn were banned or decided illegal.  Imagine the upset or objectifying of women if there was no outlet for fantasy?  Eeesh.
I think porn can be healthy for many.  Objectifying women? Probably.  But simultaneously a potential problem solver because it provides an outlet? Definitely.  NotGod help us should porn ever be banned.  


just my two cents worth.
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Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2013, 10:22:23 AM »
I would just like to point out that many objections to pornography dissolve when the porn involves gay men, although I'm sure there is a feminist out there who would complain that women are underrepresented gay male porn industry.

Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2013, 10:54:55 AM »
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"
I would just like to point out that many objections to pornography dissolve when the porn involves gay men, although I'm sure there is a feminist out there who would complain that women are underrepresented gay male porn industry.

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Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2013, 11:37:07 AM »
Quote from: "Jason78"
What's an "empowered role" for women in porn?  Are we talking like Joanna Angel here?
That is, obviously, a key question and one not answered in the NPR piece. I managed to find the study not behind a $30 pay-wall, and while I have not read all of it, this seems to be the relevant passage:

Quote

There is room to argue over the definitions they used, especially on the idea that lack of disempowerment necessarily equates to anti-disempowerment or (as the NPR piece called it and a term used elsewhere in the paper) empowerment, but I think they were mostly trying to use definitions created by others so they could just focus on their research.
"Observe that noses were made to wear spectacles; and so we have spectacles. Legs were visibly instituted to be breeched, and we have breeches" Voltaire�s Candide

Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2013, 12:04:33 PM »
Quote
Certainly sex depicted in porn is unrealistic to the sex off camera in daily life.


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Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2013, 12:07:14 PM »
If women want to fuck for bucks that's their call, not mine.  Good luck to 'em.

For me, I'd say one of the biggest issues with depiction of women in porn is when it is viewed by someone who is either too young or too stupid to differentiate between porn and real life.  If 13 year old Billy is watching pr0n in his bedroom then tries ass-to-mouth on his first date with Blossom next door, it's probably going to end in tears for both of them, and Blossom's dad is probably going to tear Billy a new one....  :shock:

Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2013, 01:16:01 PM »
Quote from: "Poison Tree"
[spoil:gck8ltic]
Quote from: "Jason78"
What's an "empowered role" for women in porn?  Are we talking like Joanna Angel here?
That is, obviously, a key question and one not answered in the NPR piece. I managed to find the study not behind a $30 pay-wall, and while I have not read all of it, this seems to be the relevant passage:

Quote

There is room to argue over the definitions they used, especially on the idea that lack of disempowerment necessarily equates to anti-disempowerment or (as the NPR piece called it and a term used elsewhere in the paper) empowerment, but I think they were mostly trying to use definitions created by others so they could just focus on their research.[/spoil:gck8ltic]

I have a few objections to that research:  
It's over ten years old (I know that on it's own that doesn't invalidate it, but porn and attitudes to porn has moved on since then.)
There's a whole range of body types that persist in porn, not just what mainstream media says a woman should look like.
Some positions and poses are purely for the benefit of the camera.  There's nothing submissive about a woman on her knees sucking a cock.
Shots are framed for their artistic merit, not for the ease of the performers.  You'll see similar poses in non-pornographic works.
Restraints and bdsm behaviour need to be looked at in context.  This is a sex act carried out with consent, requiring trust from both parties in order to be safe.
Thanks to HD porn, we now have performers, warts and all.  Performers with biopsy scars, blemishes, cellulite, stretch marks and freckles.

In conclusion, I don't think that empowerment can be detected visually with a 100% success rate.  Because what you're watching is fictional version of sex.  Tanya Tate or Joanna Angel might look submissive on their knees sucking a cock, but they are the ones running the show.
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Offline aitm

Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2013, 01:39:51 PM »
bitches be crazy
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2013, 03:47:07 PM »
Quote from: "Jason78"
Quote from: "Poison Tree"
[spoil:8ba8zn92]
Quote from: "Jason78"
What's an "empowered role" for women in porn?  Are we talking like Joanna Angel here?
That is, obviously, a key question and one not answered in the NPR piece. I managed to find the study not behind a $30 pay-wall, and while I have not read all of it, this seems to be the relevant passage:

Quote

There is room to argue over the definitions they used, especially on the idea that lack of disempowerment necessarily equates to anti-disempowerment or (as the NPR piece called it and a term used elsewhere in the paper) empowerment, but I think they were mostly trying to use definitions created by others so they could just focus on their research.[/spoil:8ba8zn92]

I have a few objections to that research:  
It's over ten years old (I know that on it's own that doesn't invalidate it, but porn and attitudes to porn has moved on since then.)
There's a whole range of body types that persist in porn, not just what mainstream media says a woman should look like.
Some positions and poses are purely for the benefit of the camera.  There's nothing submissive about a woman on her knees sucking a cock.
Shots are framed for their artistic merit, not for the ease of the performers.  You'll see similar poses in non-pornographic works.
Restraints and bdsm behaviour need to be looked at in context.  This is a sex act carried out with consent, requiring trust from both parties in order to be safe.
Thanks to HD porn, we now have performers, warts and all.  Performers with biopsy scars, blemishes, cellulite, stretch marks and freckles.

In conclusion, I don't think that empowerment can be detected visually with a 100% success rate.  Because what you're watching is fictional version of sex.  Tanya Tate or Joanna Angel might look submissive on their knees sucking a cock, but they are the ones running the show.
Many of your objections are valid, some of which (and others) were mentioned in the paper itself--and you could also point out what a small sample size they were actually looking at compared to the amount of porn that is out there. However, I don't think the research is as old as you say because it cites papers from the 2000s including one from 2009 and two from 2010 (though maybe the research is much older than the paper).  Any research will have flaws, especially when trying to cover new areas. Some flaws only become apparent during the work. No one paper could possibly do everything necessary to get a true picture of what is going on and must rely on potentially faulty work/definitions of others (especially when the goal is to examine the overarching hypothesis of these others) and make concession away from perfection in the face of practical limitations

As you rightly point out, the women on her knees sucking dick may look disempowered (at least according to the (majority) anti-porn feminist view) but she is at the very least fully consenting to everything that is happening and, if she's a big name porn-star, probably holds the real power in the situation if only because she's the rare/valued commodity in the equation, so to speak, (not to mention she's got a vulnerable, sensitive cock and balls in her teeth and hands) so she may have the producer/director by their figurative (and the actor by his literal) short-hairs.

I hope more--and better designed--research looks into the issue and if all this paper ends up doing is spurring more investigation into this area I think it would have still been worth while.
"Observe that noses were made to wear spectacles; and so we have spectacles. Legs were visibly instituted to be breeched, and we have breeches" Voltaire�s Candide

Offline Shiranu

Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2013, 04:29:23 PM »
The Anthony Wiener mistress has signed on to do a porno. I would watch it, she has nice personalities.

Negative: Just looked at pictures, it's whatever. Scratch that one.
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Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2013, 04:31:08 PM »
Quote from: "Shiranu"
The Anthony Wiener mistress has signed on to do a porno. I would watch it, she has nice personalities.

Negative: Just looked at pictures, it's whatever. Scratch that one.

 :rollin:
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2013, 04:37:35 PM »
Quote from: "LikelyToBreak"
I don't really know what the feminist position of how women are portrayed in the different media is, but it seems to me that it would be wrong for me to tell women how they should allow themselves to be portrayed.  It isn't any of my business if a woman wants to have kinky sex in front of a camera for money.  If she wants parade around in her underwear on TV, again it isn't my place to tell her she can't.  If the argument is that women are being forced to do these things, than I would be against forcing anyone to do something they don't want to do.  But, if the so-called "force" is more money for them, then I don't see a problem with it.

Well said you!  =D>
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2013, 04:43:54 PM »
arguments about unrealistic expectations of women, can go the other way. how many men meet the expectations set forth in romance novels that women read?

people having unrealistic expectations about their partners happens in both directions.
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Re: Porn/Depiction of Women
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2013, 04:47:28 PM »
Quote from: "hillbillyatheist"
arguments about unrealistic expectations of women, can go the other way. how many men meet the expectations set forth in romance novels that women read?

people having unrealistic expectations about their partners happens in both directions.

QFT!
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.