Reza Aslan - Islamic Misperceptions

[baronvonrort]

If you click on the link and look at what Afghanistan was like in the 1960's (Iran and Egypt as well) you might wonder how the fuck the Taliban could ever take over.

There's no ""wonder" to it - the US financed the mujahideen to counter the Soviets (we, the UK, Saudi Arabia, spent billions training and arming them).  Once the USSR left, there was no law, so the warlords regained power (most Muslim countries started off as clans and tribes, not countries).  The Taliban just stepped into the power vacuum.

No "wonder" at all at this time.  Back in the 80s?  Well, some people wonder why they get wet when they stand out in the rain, so I guess we can forgive Ronnie - especially since he was already suffering from Alzheimer's.

Are you ignorant of the fact the Pakistan ISI also financed the Taliban and other Mujahideen, which governments recognised the Taliban as a legitimate government and provided support?

//http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Services_Intelligence#Allegations

What happened with the Iranian hostage crisis when Ronnie Raygun came into power?
Why do Iranians ask me why the CIA did not put a bullet in Khomeni's head to prevent the Islamic revolution?

[Jmpty]

If you click on the link and look at what Afghanistan was like in the 1960's (Iran and Egypt as well) you might wonder how the fuck the Taliban could ever take over.

There's no ""wonder" to it - the US financed the mujahideen to counter the Soviets (we, the UK, Saudi Arabia, spent billions training and arming them).  Once the USSR left, there was no law, so the warlords regained power (most Muslim countries started off as clans and tribes, not countries).  The Taliban just stepped into the power vacuum.

No "wonder" at all at this time.  Back in the 80s?  Well, some people wonder why they get wet when they stand out in the rain, so I guess we can forgive Ronnie - especially since he was already suffering from Alzheimer's.

Are you ignorant of the fact the Pakistan ISI also financed the Taliban and other Mujahideen, which governments recognised the Taliban as a legitimate government and provided support?

//http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Services_Intelligence#Allegations

What happened with the Iranian hostage crisis when Ronnie Raygun came into power?
Why do Iranians ask me why the CIA did not put a bullet in Khomeni's head to prevent the Islamic revolution?

Why don't you enlighten us?

[Shiranu]

Why don't you enlighten us?

I'm interested as well. The Iranian hostage crisis was long after the CIA and MI-6 began to over-throw the Iranian government (Mosaddegh being overthrown in 1953), so I'm not sure what relevance it has.

Though to offer my opinion on it, the Ayatollah's revolution was a popular one thanks to his anti-Western views... assassinating him would have only furthered the anti-Western hatred that was more than justified in Iran at the time. I believe the assassination of the Ayatollah would have been infinitely more harmful than useful, because contrary to Western belief the Iranian population is not happy under the current regime (See Iranian Green Movement).

[Cocoa Beware]

What happened to reading comprehension? If you would have quoted the whole thing you would realize that's not his position but what he (accurately) accuses people of thinking.

Well, nuts. I cant believe I did that.

However, its not like this guy is telling me something I don't already know. For example, Iran is caucasian for the most part, but many people think its Arabian. Muslims are as diverse as one would expect from a religion that is so widespread.

I have to admit I have difficulty listening to Muslim apologists because I don't think its possible for a Muslim to be objective. The reason you never hear any Muslim say Mohammed was wrong about such and such is because well... from their perspective that's just not possible.

[Colanth]

I have to admit I have difficulty listening to Muslim apologists because I don't think its possible for a Muslim to be objective. The reason you never hear any Muslim say Mohammed was wrong about such and such is because well... from their perspective that's just not possible.

All religions are like that.  Can you imagine a Christian saying that Jesus was wrong?

[LikelyToBreak]

Cocoa Beware wrote:
I have to admit I have difficulty listening to Muslim apologists because I don't think its possible for a Muslim to be objective. The reason you never hear any Muslim say Mohammed was wrong about such and such is because well... from their perspective that's just not possible.

And Colanth wrote:

All religions are like that. Can you imagine a Christian saying that Jesus was wrong?

Yes, not many.  But, a few.  There are LGBT Christians after all.

[Shiranu]

IIRC, Jesus never said anything about gays. Paul and the old testament yeah, not Christ (though you can argue that since Jesus didn't come to change the law,  it would still apply.)

[Cocoa Beware]

In Christian nations, women, homosexuals, lesbians, transgender people are technically presented equal to men -and that is the white man- only in laws. Not in society, jobs, social promotion...etc. It's a political make up. There is an amazing conviction among people in any kind of West that the situation of the other is OK. (For example, think why you didn't include lesbians and transgender people, -writing LGBT groups is shorter than just writing 'homosexuals'. ) Because of this conviction there is an unbelievable political correctness about women's issues and social problems of  LGBT groups. For example Europe is an important foot in human trafficking on sex slave market and this effects almost always women. But this is not a main issue to be battled because the victims are Eastern women and girls.
About LGBT groups there are very few places on earth we could claim that there is equality.

The reason for this is the dark side of Western culture, which while thriving with democracy and human rights it caused individuality grow in a unhealthy way and caused an overall very harsh politically correct culture that is not interested in these issues leaving the individual alone, alienating him/her from their own society and the world.

I never understood this whole idea where I need to disprove of every major religion equally.

Some critics exclusively target Christianity, is that the same problem?

[LikelyToBreak]

Drunkenshoe are you trying to say:

Matthew 7:5 King James Version

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

In which case, I think you bring up many valid points.  Americans allow themselves to be mislead by our mass media.  The mass media work for the corporations in America, and not for the people they are supposedly serving.

Having said that, I know I tend to attack Islam when I can, because Christianity I can attack just about any time.  They are all around us.  Its' Christians, and Mormons if you don't think of them as Christians, who knock on my door and tell me I'm going to hell.  Its' the Christians who hit me up for donations in front of stores.  Its' Christians in my family who will no longer discuss religion with me.  So, yeah I attack Islam on a forum when I can.

Most of the stuff which goes on outside of America, the average American is completely clueless about.  Hell, most Americans don't even know where Indonesia is.  I got better news about what was going on overseas from the Stars & Stripes newspaper, a heavily edited military rag, then I could get from the Los Angeles Times.  So, should Americans be blamed for the excesses of the American government and American corporations.  Yeah, probably.   :oops:

Think about it.  If this is a free country, how is it that we let our government get away with allowing torture to happen in our name.  Did Bush get impeached over this?  Did we try to have Obama impeached for the "Fast and Furious" scandal.  When Clinton was impeached for committing perjury, was he actually thrown out of office.  

I could list a hundred more scandals where the perpetrators got away with it, but I think you guys get the drift.  We are awash in scandals all across this country and we almost never do anything about it.  Instead we watch O.J. drive slowly on the highway, tune in to American Idol, or argue about the death of one young black man in Florida, while hundreds are dying in Chicago.  We are asleep at the wheel and letting the kids drive the car.  We deserve what we get.