Don't Spank

[Fidel_Castronaut]

My husband and I don't believe in physical punishment. It seems counterintuitive. We're always telling our kids it's not okay to hit each other, so we'd be hypocrites to turn around and hit our kids.

yet another group of parents that think they can parent and be fair. being a parent means being a hypocrite sometimes. i never had to spank my nine year old but my two year old??? he can be a holy terror...spanking may be in the play book down the road.

Exactly. Do as I say and not as I do.

I don't have kids, but if I ever do, it'll be a house of discipline just like my dad ran for me. I hated it when I was a kid [discipline], but my parents didnt go overboard with it and I turned out alright with an appreciation that I was a dumbass kid who didn't know what I was doing when I was young.

[aitm]

I got whipped with a garden hose when I was 9 for "borrowing" someones boat to go fishin......never "borrowed" one since..

[SilentFutility]

Never spanked my kids because no one spanked me. Best approach is simply hands on- hold the child firmly and make sure they got your attention, and make them look you in the eye when you talk to them. But don't cause pain, because that only incurs hurt and resentment.

I completely agree.

The study authors specifically looked at what they defined as "harsh physical punishment" in childhood: pushing, grabbing, shoving, slapping, and hitting.

So spanking isnt mentioned, and the rest of these indicate a parent who is frequently engaging in unfettered physical abuse. Its no surprise to me that serious physical abuse has effects on child development.

Yeah, surprised nobody else caught this.

My husband and I don't believe in physical punishment. It seems counterintuitive. We're always telling our kids it's not okay to hit each other, so we'd be hypocrites to turn around and hit our kids.

yet another group of parents that think they can parent and be fair. being a parent means being a hypocrite sometimes. i never had to spank my nine year old but my two year old??? he can be a holy terror...spanking may be in the play book down the road.

Exactly. Do as I say and not as I do.

I don't have kids, but if I ever do, it'll be a house of discipline just like my dad ran for me. I hated it when I was a kid [discipline], but my parents didnt go overboard with it and I turned out alright with an appreciation that I was a dumbass kid who didn't know what I was doing when I was young.

I disagree. I feel that striking your children is lazy parenting. It is never okay to strike someone because they are not doing what you want. You are supposed to be an adult, it takes a lot of mental strength and effort to deal with children, especially young ones, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable to lapse and just hit them when you give up.

This is just my opinion, and I'm sure people will disagree, but if you are willing to strike a 4 year old because they're being difficult then you need to look very long and hard at yourself. Hitting someone small and defenseless does not suddenly become okay because they are your child. Yes, plenty of people were hit as children and turned out fine, I know, that doesn't justify this behaviour though. Deep down, everyone knows that hitting someone in order to get them to behave how you want is wrong, if something is wrong, then it is wrong, but it is also easy, which is why people do it.

I also disagree that being a parent sometimes means being a hypocrite. If something is not acceptable, then it is not acceptable. A principle is not a principle if it is simply ignored at convinience and when you're too lazy to do the right thing.

[Youssuf Ramadan]

I think it works if spanking is used sparingly, certainly not as a default setting.  For example, where the transgression would have involved serious harm to the kid itself or others and the kid is unwilling to listen to reason.  Some kids just aren't up for discussion.  I got spanked when I was a kid - not very often - and looking back, I was being a twat so I deserved it.

[surly74]

I disagree. I feel that striking your children is lazy parenting. It is never okay to strike someone because they are not doing what you want. You are supposed to be an adult, it takes a lot of mental strength and effort to deal with children, especially young ones, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable to lapse and just hit them when you give up.

This is just my opinion, and I'm sure people will disagree, but if you are willing to strike a 4 year old because they're being difficult then you need to look very long and hard at yourself. Hitting someone small and defenseless does not suddenly become okay because they are your child. Yes, plenty of people were hit as children and turned out fine, I know, that doesn't justify this behaviour though. Deep down, everyone knows that hitting someone in order to get them to behave how you want is wrong, if something is wrong, then it is wrong, but it is also easy, which is why people do it.

I also disagree that being a parent sometimes means being a hypocrite. If something is not acceptable, then it is not acceptable. A principle is not a principle if it is simply ignored at convinience and when you're too lazy to do the right thing.

it's lazy to throw out the lazy argument.  it's much lazier parenting to give into a toddler or older who is throwing a tantrum instead of riding it out and dealing with it...but sometimes spanking is needed as a tool. it's much lazier to gloss over truly bad behaviour because steps weren't taken early on to instill respect.

spanking your child is not the same as beating your child.

parents want the fear of a spanking to correct the behaviour rather that actually deliver one. I don't know any normal parent that takes joy in spanking their child but those that have instilled a tool that the mere threat will take care of things. that is the exact opposite of lazy.

what works for one child doesn't necessarily mean it will work for another...even if they are siblings so if kids from the same family behave differently how can anyone expect one solution to the spanking debate for everyone?

[Plu]

Did anyone here that was spanked as a child actually respect their parents for it? Personally I would've felt contempt, at best.

I've also heard more cases of "getting spanked taught me not to get caught" over "getting spanked taught me not to misbehave".

[The Skeletal Atheist]

When my nephew was 2 I would smack him on the calf if he was at his absolute worst. Now that he's 4 there's not much need for physical discipline of any kind, I just have him sit on the steps if he gets out of line. Now, if he tries to hit me I'll flick his ear then put him in time out.

[Shiranu]

Did anyone here that was spanked as a child actually respect their parents for it? Personally I would've felt contempt, at best.

I've also heard more cases of "getting spanked taught me not to get caught" over "getting spanked taught me not to misbehave".

I don't think it did anything for me, honestly.

To be fair though, punishment never really did anything to me... suspensions from school, entertainment taken away, ISS... never really bothered me. I have always had a hyper imagination and learned more about the world outside of school anyways so those type of punishments didn't bother me and I have a high pain/embarrassment tolerance so spanking didn't do much either. Didn't really lose respect, gain resent... I really couldn't have cared less one way or another.

If I was ever a parent I know I wouldn't spank my child, I don't see the point. I rather the child respect me than fear me, and threatening them with physical punishment seems counter to that.

[Zeto]

I've never understood the concept of it. I've never been spanked, but my dad has always believed in physical discipline, mostly slapping. I don't like to be touched and my uncle knows this, but when I was a kid he always used to rub my head as a way of making fun of me (that's my perception anyway). One day it pissed me off so much I yelled at him "Fuck off!" and gave him the finger. My dad saw this hit me across the face three times, the hardest he ever did. Couldn't hear out my right ear for a week. Safe to say if I ever have kids I don't plan on ever hitting them in any way.

[aitm]

I was spanked, as most of my generation was, I have absolutely no issue with what they did. I won't go into the anecdotal crap but between the 6 siblings and all our 21 kids, I can see the proof of spanking in the behavior of the kids who got it and those who didn't it. So I don't oppose spanking.

[GSOgymrat]

I worked for two years on an inpatient child psychiatric unit with children with problems ranging from psychosis to mood and severe behavioral problems. Corporal punishment is not necessary to change behavior in even the most difficult children. There is clinical evidence that corporal punishment produces less desirable long-term results in conduct and behavior, particularly with increased aggression. Spanking gives parents a temporary feeling of control when they are frustrated with their child's behavior, which is the only positive result I can think of that comes from spanking.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Exactly. Do as I say and not as I do.

I don't have kids, but if I ever do, it'll be a house of discipline just like my dad ran for me. I hated it when I was a kid [discipline], but my parents didnt go overboard with it and I turned out alright with an appreciation that I was a dumbass kid who didn't know what I was doing when I was young.

I disagree. I feel that striking your children is lazy parenting. It is never okay to strike someone because they are not doing what you want. You are supposed to be an adult, it takes a lot of mental strength and effort to deal with children, especially young ones, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable to lapse and just hit them when you give up.

This is just my opinion, and I'm sure people will disagree, but if you are willing to strike a 4 year old because they're being difficult then you need to look very long and hard at yourself. Hitting someone small and defenseless does not suddenly become okay because they are your child. Yes, plenty of people were hit as children and turned out fine, I know, that doesn't justify this behaviour though. Deep down, everyone knows that hitting someone in order to get them to behave how you want is wrong, if something is wrong, then it is wrong, but it is also easy, which is why people do it.

I also disagree that being a parent sometimes means being a hypocrite. If something is not acceptable, then it is not acceptable. A principle is not a principle if it is simply ignored at convinience and when you're too lazy to do the right thing.

I also disagree. You've let 'beating' become synonomous with 'spanking' which I believe is an error (although this may have simply been a typing error).

It's also a mistake to equate spanking with "lapsing" into a behaviour. Young children do not pick up on social cues, neither do they understand fully or comprehend stern talking to's and firm dialogue. Sitting them on the naughty step is all well and good and probably could account for around 95% of corrective discipline (if utilised correctly, which often it isn't), but sometimes children need to understand that acting in a given way will earn them a physical rebuke. And again, this is not to be equated to beating them senseless, it is light but firm physical interaction to create clear and decisive boundaries that a talking to or isolation (eg. the naughty step) could not and wil not achieve. When they're older, then sure, of course, because they'll understand it better.

spanking a child when it runs through crowded traffic is, for me, preferable for setting the boundary than simply telling them no because they really have no clue as to what 'no' actually means unless there's an actual repurcussion for doing so.

Hypocritical behaviour I believe is unavoidable when it comes to being a parent because there are clear and defined rules for children that do [not] apply to adults and vice versa. Drinking for example. Telling a child it cannot drink whilst having a pint. Hypocritical? Perhaps, also legally enforcable.

Don't talk to strangers. Often we tell children this, yet adults do it all the time (pub, bar, whatever). Hypocritical, but then again, adult's understand the rules of engagement much better than children because they've become accustomed to the societal context to which they live.

Don't run in the road (when crossing at a crossing for example). Adults, again, are able to both understand the consequences of enacting such behaviour and also are guaging the risk/reward of doing such a thing. "I'm late for work, I don't see any traffic and I know that there is a high probability of me getting across the road unscathed if I run". We wouldn't give the same advice for children because that would instill a trait that would be unwanted through their formative years.

So 'doing the right thing' is just as subjective as the 'thing' in question, wouldn't you say?

[aitm]

I have seen many instances where a child is trying "not knowingly" to do something where real danger or harm could easily result. For instance touching the hot range coil, or trying to pull the handle of a pot from the range top, or in my kids case her insistence to touch the very hot wood stove. I follow the "animal rule", sometimes pain is necessary not so much as training but as a warning. I finally let the kid touch the wood stove but was right there because kids can sometimes not have the quickness to pull back, so she touched I pulled, she looked at me and we have all seen how the face melts when the pain slowly catches up to the young brain. From that point on when I said "No" she was far more cautious around things and stopped behavior that could be dangerous. Just my tcw.
edit: my point was that yes I did spank on the occasion where I thought to allow the action would be far more harmful than a whack on the butt.

[Solitary]

I've noticed a lot of comments here show they identify with the punisher and punishment they got and agree they deserved it. It the same way people feel when they've been kidnapped and can't scape.

So I looked it up about people that are abused, and here is what I found:

For the past decade, Suzanne Adam has served as the YWCA Greenwich Director of Domestic Abuse Services.

Domestic abuse? In Greenwich? Well, here is a number to consider. Over the next year, YWCA Greenwich will spend about $2 million on a wide range of programs serving victims of domestic abuse. That's right ... $2 million. Greenwich Time took a Time Out with Adam to find out just how big the problem domestic abuse is in town, the various forms abuse can take and how to escape an abusive relationship.

Q: How big a problem is domestic abuse in Greenwich?

A: One is too many and we serve thousands of victims every year.

Q: What kinds of abuse are we talking about?

A: Domestic abuse is physical, emotional or sexual abuse, as well as intimidating and threatening behaviors taking place within the context of the family household. It may occur between adults, between adults and children, or between children.

It may be physical, emotional or sexual. However, it may present itself, abuse is never the fault of the victim. It is 100 percent the responsibility and choice of the abuser.

Physical abuse involves the use of any physical act to harm, frighten and gain control over another person. It includes not only the physical abuse that causes injuries requiring emergency medical care, but also any physical contact that aims to frighten and control: shoving, pushing down on a bed, preventing someone from moving by holding and breaking or damaging objects around the victim.

Most victims say emotional abuse is the cruelest form of abuse and that it hurts far more than physical abuse, leaving deeper wounds that take much longer to heal. It is also more difficult for victims to identify, leaving them vulnerable to others' judgment and possible disbelief.

Similarly, it is dangerously easy for victims to believe their abusers when they say, "it's in their head," or "it's their entire fault" or "you push my buttons and provoke me to act this way," causing the victims to feel responsible or deserving of the abuse.

Verbal abuse is a coercive method to exercise control over another person. It belittles and demeans through continuous verbal manipulation, unpredictable erratic behavior, game playing, and fear, which keeps the victim always off balance and in constant fear of possibly doing something wrong.

In many cases, it is so severe that it amounts to brainwashing.

Sexual abuse is not only rape, but includes forcing a person to perform sexual acts against his or her will, hurting sexual parts and treating the victim like a sex object. It is important to remember that rape is rape, even if the victim is married to the abuser.

More examples of abuse are: isolation from family and friends, withholding of money, using children, controlling finances. The victim may be left feeling scared, confused, dependent and insecure.

Q: Who are the victims?

A: Anyone can be a victim! Victims can be of any age, sex, race, culture, religion, education, employment or marital status. Although both men and women can be abused, most victims are women. Children in homes where there is domestic violence are more likely to be abused and/or neglected. Even if a child is not physically harmed, they may have emotional and behavior problems. Parents may think children do not know about the violence, but most of the time they do. Children often know what happened. They can feel helpless, scared and upset. They may also feel like the violence is their fault.

Violence in the home is dangerous for children. Children live with scary noises, yelling and hitting. They are afraid for their parents and themselves. Children feel bad that they cannot stop the abuse. If they try to stop the fight, they can be hurt. They can also be hurt by things that are thrown or weapons that are used. Children are harmed just by seeing and hearing the violence.

Q: Are there common events/issues that trigger domestic abuse?

A: There are three phases of the cycle of violence: the tension phase, the abuse episode, and the honeymoon phase. These phases could occur monthly, weekly or sporadically, but they repeat themselves forming the cycle of violence.

The abuser invariably will blame the victim for provoking the abuse, accusing her/him of some shortcoming or behavior (for example, sloppy housekeeping, being too fussy, awful cooking, too fat, too thin, hair too long, hair too short, always late, flirting), real or imagined, that "caused him to react abusively".

The honeymoon period, which usually follows the abusive episode, frequently finds the abuser apologizing profusely, promising never to do it again, and professing his/her undying love, bringing the victim flowers, and threatening suicide if she leaves him. This period may be simply an absence of violence and no real remorse. It may be the most dangerous phase of the cycle because it is during this period that the victim may be lured back into the relationship with new hopes for the relationship only to find the cycle beginning again.

Q: Is there an economic factor involved? Is domestic abuse a low income problem or is it an equal opportunity problem?

A: Domestic violence is an equal opportunity problem. However, finances can have an impact on domestic violence. Poverty, lack of control and feelings of powerlessness can lead to the perpetrator's perceived need to dominate family members. And this is linked to increased levels of mistreatment. During the recent plummet of world markets, those who abuse are more likely to express their feelings of frustration in more belligerent ways.

Many people who are normally calm were stressed by the financial meltdown and concerned that they were spiraling out of control. Those individuals could be emotionally at risk for harming their spouse, children, or elders under their care.

Q: Are there early warning signs that might indicate a relationship is turning abusive?

A: Yes, there are many. Including:

Feeling afraid of your partner most of the time.

Feeling that you can't do anything right.

Getting embarrassed by your partner's behavior toward you.

Believing that you deserve to be hurt or mistreated.

Avoiding topics or situations out of fear of angering your partner.

Q: Why do victims of domestic abuse often times tend to stay in abusive relationships?

A: The question that should be asked is why does the perpetrator continue to perpetrate violence? However, people who stay in abusive relationships undergo gradual steps of reasoning to reconcile the abuse in their minds. The reasons they stay may change as the abuse in the relationship progresses.

At first, people might stay because:

They love their partners

They believe their partners will change

They believe that they can control the abuse by doing things that their partners want; wearing certain clothes, keeping the house clean, keeping the children quiet...

They are embarrassed for their partners and themselves

They are afraid of what will happen if and when the police become involved

Later, people might stay because:

They love their partners but are increasingly confused by that love

They hope their partners will change or get help and believe their partner when they say they will change

They are under pressure from family and friends to stay

They believe their partners love and need them

They are afraid to be alone

They believe they can't support themselves

They are confused

They are increasingly scared of their partners' behavior

Finally, people might stay because:

FEAR: their partners have become incredibly powerful in their eyes

The partners threaten to kill them, the children, their families or their friends

They have developed low self-esteem

They believe that no one can help them

They believe that they cannot survive alone

They believe that no one will love them

They are very confused and feel guilty

They become depressed and immobile. Decisions are difficult and sometimes impossible to make.

They believe they have no options

They have developed serious physical and emotional problems

They become suicidal and/or homicidal

Q: What recourse do victims have? Are there, a top five things someone should do when they find themselves in an abusive relationship?

A: There are many options available to those who are being abused depending on their individual needs and circumstances. The best thing for someone to do is to call our 24-hour hotline at 203-622-0003 or come to the YWCA to meet with a counselor in person.

Some things to consider: Understand that you are not alone, document the abuse and call the hotline to learn about our options and to create a safety plan.

Q: What is a safety plan?

A: A plan developed between an advocate/counselor and a victim that contains specific activities for a victim to be safe from an abuser.

Safety planning is an essential step to be completed with all victims of domestic violence. It allows individualized planning for situations the victim and children or family may encounter regardless of what the victim decides to do about the relationship with the abuser. Age-appropriate Safety Planning is also important for child survivors/witnesses of domestic violence.

Safety planning examples:

1. Identify the safest way out of your house of your need to leave right away.

2. Inform your employee, childcare provider and schools of your situation.

3. Change the locks on your doors.

4. Mobilize your support network: friends, family, church etc.

5. Keep a cellular phone on your at all times. Program Domestic Abuse Services 24 hour hotline 203-622-0003 into your cell phone.

6. Have a place where can you keep your purse, car keys and some change to make a phone call so that you can grab them quickly.

7. Teach your children how to use the telephone to contact the police.

8. Create a code word you can use with friends, family and/or your children to alert them to call for help.

Q: How can the abused find help? What sort of programs/organizations/services are available to sufferers of domestic abuse?

A: In Greenwich, the Greenwich YWCA (and its Domestic Abuse Services) is the only agency licensed to treat victims of domestic violence; there are, however, agencies and programs to assist individuals throughout the state. They provide services specifically for victims of domestic violence and their children. Their services are confidential, and available to all individuals regardless of age, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, class, or physical ability. They offer safety planning, advocacy, information, referrals, counseling, support groups and emergency shelter. You can be immediately connected with a program in your area by calling our toll free domestic violence hotline at 888-774-2900.

Q: On a more personal level, why are you doing what you do? What do you get out of working with those who have experienced abuse?

A: Domestic violence is one of the most pervasive of all social problems, affecting most of the population directly or indirectly. For some people, the thought of "happily ever after" might seem like a nice idea, but it's far from reality. For these people, the term "happily ever after" simply does not apply. There are millions of people in America that find themselves in domestic violence situations each year. These types of situations are not only unhappy and uncomfortable, but they are also downright dangerous. I do this work because I believe everyone has the right to live a life free of abuse. People have the right to be safe, the right to love and be loved and the right to be treated with respect.

I would think this applies to children even more so. Solitary

[surly74]

what does this have to do with spanking a child?