Self-Defense? 20 Years. Murder? 0.

[Shiranu]

http://www.alternet.org/stand-your-grou ... e-standard

A man in Florida shoots a man he finds having sex with his wife, killing him.  A woman in Florida shoots the wall to scare off an abusive husband, harming nobody. Guess which one was acquitted? Guess which one was convicted?

On March 10 of this year, around midnight, Ralph Wald, 70, of Brandon Florida,  got out of bed  to get a drink and found Walter Conley, 32, having sex his wife, Johanna Lynn Flores, 41, in the living room. He immediately went back into his bedroom, grabbed his gun and shot Conley three times. Conley died. Wald claims that he thought Conley was a stranger who had broken in and was raping his wife –  despite the fact that Conley lived next door, had been his wife's roommate and lover, and had his wife's name tattooed onto his neck and arm. During a 911 call, when the dispatcher asked Wald if the man he shot was dead, Wald  responded, "I hope so!" Wald never used the word rape in later reports to police, opting instead for "fornicate." And while the fact that the two were lovers doesn't imply consent, Flores has never accused Conley of rape— nor do prosecutors buy that that's what Wald actually thought was happening.

On May 30, after deliberating for two hours, a jury found Wald not guilty. After the verdict was announced, Wald continued to show  no remorse: "If the same thing happened again, I would do the same thing."

On Aug. 1, 2010, Marissa Alexander, a 31-year-old mother of three, with a Master's degree and no criminal record, was working for a payroll software company in Jacksonville. She was estranged from her abusive husband, Rico Gray, and had a restraining order against him. Thinking he was not at home, she went to their former house to get some belongings. The two got into an argument. Alexander says that Gray threatened her and she feared for her life. Gray corroborates Alexander's story: "I was in a rage. I called her a whore and bitch and .?.?. I told her... if I can't have you, nobody going to have you,"  he said, in a deposition. When Alexander retreated into the bathroom, Gray tried to break the door. She ran into the garage, but couldn't leave because it was locked.  She came back, he said, with a registered gun, which she legally owned, and yelled at him to leave.  Gray recalls, "I told her... I ain't going nowhere, and so I started walking toward her...I was cursing and all that... and she shot in the air." Even Gray understands why Alexander fired the warning shot: "If my kids wouldn't have been there, I probably would have put my hand on her. Probably hit her. I got five baby mommas and I put my hands on every last one of them, except for one .... I honestly think she just didn't want me to put my hands on her anymore so she did what she feel like she have to do to make sure she wouldn't get hurt, you know. You know, she did what she had to do." And Gray admits Alexander was acting in self-defense, intending to scare and stop but not harm him: "The gun was never actually pointed at me... The fact is, you know .?.?. she never been violent toward me. I was always the one starting it."

 Ultimately nobody was hurt. Nobody died. On May 12, 2012, it took a jury 12 minutes to find Alexander guilty of aggravated assault. She was sentenced to 20 years in prison.

[Eric1958]

Oft times what passes for justice in our world really sucks. I guess that's part of the appeal of religion, an ultimate justice before an all knowing, all powerful god.

[Seabear]

News flash! This just in: Legal System Not Perfect

[Shiranu]

News flash! This just in: Legal System Not Perfect

Correct, and its always good for people to see just how flawed it is.

[Seabear]

News flash! This just in: Legal System Not Perfect

Correct, and its always good for people to see just how flawed it is.

Yep, it's the worst there is, except for all the others.

[Shiranu]

News flash! This just in: Legal System Not Perfect

Correct, and its always good for people to see just how flawed it is.

Yep, it's the worst there is, except for all the others.

Wrong again, Bob.



-We have the highest rate of incarceration in the world.
-We have the world's largest prison, far grander than anything Iran, China or North Korea has come up with.
-We have a justice system notorious around the world for protecting the rich while sending people who committed no actual crime to jail.
-We have a system notorious for protecting whites while giving black's far more time for the same or lesser offenses.
-We have a penal system that revolves around the use of private prisons; we pay far more per criminal to a corporation than we would have to pay if we housed them ourselves.
-And as a result of the penal system above we have laws that are written to send innocent people to jail so that the corporations can make more money off of the government. They throw us in jail for nothing, they make money off our tax money.

If you think we have the best prison system in the world, you apparently have never been outside of the United States. I suppose you also think we are the most "free" country in the world, the most "democratic" nation in the world as well?

[Jmpty]

There you go again, Shiranu, using all those facts and stuff.

[BarkAtTheMoon]

I got five baby mommas and I put my hands on every last one of them, except for one

Classy as fuck.

[LikelyToBreak]

I have harped for years on how messed up our justice system is, but what I am told almost every time is, "But, it is the best in the world."  

Personally, I think we have been brainwashed into believing a 500 year old system, set-up for the royalty in England, is the best there is.  While I must agree, it is the best system in the world for the lawyers, it is terrible for the rest of us.  

There is a better system used right here in this country.  It is the military tribunal.  I have heard it said, "If you are guilty, you want a civil trial.  If you are innocent, you should want a military trial."

The reason being, is that the military tribunal seeks to learn the truth and is less interested in jurisprudence.  What the military, ideally admittedly, is wanting to accomplish, is to stop the problem from happening again.  Which makes sense.  if a behavior is harmful to the overall well being and discipline of the service, then the tribunal is trying to find a solution to prevent this behavior.  

Many bad mouth the military tribunal, because it doesn't give the lawyers what they want.  More money!

The justice system will not be changed in this country for the better.  Because the monied own the political system and the media.  

Oh yeah. Shiranu, your facts are excellent.  I applaud you for posting them.  =D>

[Aroura33]

I don't feel like googling the study right now, but I know I've read that women get more time for using self defense against men than men do who MURDER the women.  It isn't just blacks getting more time than whites for the same crime, women do too, for even lesser crimes in some cases.

[LikelyToBreak]

Aroura33, I thought you were right, but googled it on yahoo and found you were wrong.  Still, I think women serve more time, because their prisons aren't as crowded.  Which may be where you are getting the idea from.  

Kind of crazy, lighter sentences but actually serve more time.  Fair?  

[Hijiri Byakuren]

I don't feel like googling the study right now, but I know I've read that women get more time for using self defense against men than men do who MURDER the women.  It isn't just blacks getting more time than whites for the same crime, women do too, for even lesser crimes in some cases.

That's just what women get for having the audacity to stand up to men. After 100,000+ years of human history you'd think they would know their place by now.

I wonder how many people won't detect the sarcasm.

[Aroura33]

Ah, I looked it up an the study I was talking about was actually women serving longer sentences for murdering a known batterer than the batter serves if he murders the woman.  It has to do with self defense not being recognized, because woman suffering form battered woman syndrome often kill their abuser when he is helpless, and it is often premeditated.  I mean, she isn't going to wait until he's beating the shit out of her, and THEN whip out her gun and try and shoot him (because she knows damn well he'd take it from her and kill her instead), so she waits until he is asleep or passed out drunk, then shoots him or stabs him.  Possibly she poisons his coffee one morning or something.  But she wasn't in immediate danger, so it is considered pre-meditated, calculated and cold blooded.  This constitutes a higher degree of murder than the man flying into a drunken rage and killing a woman out of "passion", even if he's sent her to the hospital a dozen times before.

So men typically serve 7 to 10 years for murdering the woman they have been abusing for years, where-as woman typically serve 20-25 years for "murdering" their abusers, and self defense is rarely accepted.

The recognition and attempt to bring to light Battered Women's Syndrome was an attempt to rectify this problem, but it never has fully succeeded.

[surly74]

This happened in Florida? Legal oddities hardly ever happen there.

[Youssuf Ramadan]

Jesus.. this makes our British legal system look almost faultless....  :shock: