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The God Delusion

Started by Satt, July 14, 2013, 04:55:21 PM

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Satt

I started on this forum as a Christian, moving slowly to being an Agnostic. I have started to read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and so far I have had a hard time putting it down. I will let you know if it pushes my over to Atheism or not in the end. Have any of you read it? What are you thoughts on it?
Quote from: \"the_antithesis\"We\'re a bunch of twats on the internet. We can\'t help you. You should see a psychologist.

NeoLogic26

I have read it and I enjoyed it. It was one of the first books I picked up when I was getting serious about dropping my religiosity. It's been a few years, but when he talked about weak vs. strong atheism and the 7 point scale he used, it seemed to express very plainly the struggle I was having in defining my own position. Using the definition of weak atheism as stopping just shy of knowing that no gods exist, I was able to come to terms with what I had been thinking. Not saying it would make someone an atheist if they already weren't leaning that way (a logical argument is probably not going to sway someone from a religious position), but it certainly can give budding atheists the foothold they might need to further solidify their position.
"For me, I am driven by two main philosophies: know more today about the world than I knew yesterday and lessen the suffering of others. You'd be surprised how far that gets you." - Neil deGrasse Tyson

frosty

My Dad kept bugging me to give it a glance so I did, and it was a very refreshing piece to read, especially considering all the questions I had about things at that time of my life. It directly attacks religionism in general and challenges the reader to think for themselves without any pre-programmed thoughts they might have had before reading the book.

I remember when it was in it's younger days, and the absolute uproar that religionists had about the idea that such a book was even allowed to exist, be published, and be read by consumers. Thankfully, people are more open nowadays to the idea of Atheist literature, and that's a good sign.

stromboli

You will be seduced by the dark side.  :twisted:

Solitary

I read it and can't believe anyone else that does doesn't realize the truth of what he says. But when has the truth or facts stopped anyone from being a believer in magic and superstitious nonsense, that's the point of faith, it needs no evidence. Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Brian37

Quote from: "Satt"I started on this forum as a Christian, moving slowly to being an Agnostic. I have started to read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and so far I have had a hard time putting it down. I will let you know if it pushes my over to Atheism or not in the end. Have any of you read it? What are you thoughts on it?

Yes I have read it, awesome book. I too could not put it down.

Well lets see if we can help push you to take that final step.

Hawkins has said  that "A god is not required". I agree. "all this" to me is not the result of a thinking being, but a manifestation of conditions, like cold air and moisture can lead to snow. Just like conditions can potentially lead to hurricanes during certain times of the year. You don't need Posiden as a cause for hurricanes. You don't need Thor as a cause for lightening.

In the God Delusion, if you have not gotten to it yet, Dawkins describes god belief like "a moth mistaking the light bulb for moonlight". It is basically our senses and perceptions having a very real ability to fool us.

Now more new agers have suggested that the universe is a living thing itself. BULLSHIT, for the reasons I stated above. And even one "scientist" I saw on Cobert, stupidly suggested that "all this" was a "giant simulation".

Well the problem with a God or even a "giant simulation" is the problem with "infinite regress". If what is created needs a complex creator(god or program), then that god/program, would need an even more complex creator, and that creator would need an even more complex creator, and that creator would need an even more complex creator,,,,,,,,,,, and so on and so on. Complexity is an outcome in reality, not a starting point.

Ok, but also look at it this way. Which is more likely if you were to make bets? 1. A God/any god/super natural being. is real? Or humans make them up?

None of our currently popular superstitions were around 4 billion years ago much less 13 billion years ago. Nor will our currently popular superstitions be around when our species goes extinct much less after the planet dies and our sun dies. The universe will continue on with absolutely no record of our existence.

Another book you need to read if you have not is "The New Atheism" by Victor Stenger.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers." Obama
Poetry By Brian37 Like my poetry on Facebook Under BrianJames Rational Poet and also at twitter under Brianrrs37

Solitary

:-k  A sobering thought! "Drink and be merry for tomorrow we die."  :shock:   8-[  Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Satt

Quote from: "Brian37"Another book you need to read if you have not is "The New Atheism" by Victor Stenger.

Thanks for the recommendation!
Quote from: \"the_antithesis\"We\'re a bunch of twats on the internet. We can\'t help you. You should see a psychologist.

the_antithesis

All you need to do to become an atheist is to honestly ask one question: What's a god?

Valigarmander

It's a good book, but Hitchens' "God is Not Great" is better. I'd recommend reading it when you finish this one.

Poison Tree

Quote from: "Valigarmander"It's a good book, but Hitchens' "God is Not Great" is better. I'd recommend reading it when you finish this one.
God is Not Great was ok, but I preferred The God Delusion. If you want the most bang for your buck I say Sam Harris' Letter to a Christian Nation packs more into less, but perhaps only if have a christian upbringing/background
"Observe that noses were made to wear spectacles; and so we have spectacles. Legs were visibly instituted to be breeched, and we have breeches" Voltaire�s Candide

SGOS

Quote from: "Valigarmander"It's a good book, but Hitchens' "God is Not Great" is better. I'd recommend reading it when you finish this one.
I liked God is Not Great better, also.  It had more food for thought (for me personally).  I didn't get much new out of The God Delusion.  I pretty much just agreed with most of the conclusions, which I had pondered long ago.  Sometimes Dawkins would lose me.  He would make a point, and then dissect it to such an extent that I would lose interest and skip ahead.

aitm

I have never read any books by "atheists", I figured if it was important to know I would have already known it......



 :-k
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Colanth

Quote from: "Satt"I started on this forum as a Christian, moving slowly to being an Agnostic. I have started to read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and so far I have had a hard time putting it down. I will let you know if it pushes my over to Atheism or not
Agnosticism is not making statements for which you have no evidence.  Atheism is not believing in any gods.  So the question comes up - do you believe in God or not?

You can't both not believe and not not believe - that's logically nonsense.  If you have any belief in any god at all you're still a theist.  If you have none you're an atheist.

If you claim that god does or doesn't exist, something no one can know, you're gnostic.  If you don't you're agnostic.

There are 4 possibilities:
1 - Gnostic theist ("God exists")
2 - Agnostic theist ("I believe in God but I have no evidence that he's real")
3 - Gnostic atheist ("there is no god")
4 - Agnostic atheist ("I don't believe in any gods and I haven't seen any evidence that any exist")

Agnostic isn't a midpoint between theist and atheist.

As for your question, Dawkins is good, Hitchens is good, Hawking is good, a physics book is good.  Which will give YOU more depends on where you're starting from.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Satt

Quote from: "Colanth"
Quote from: "Satt"I started on this forum as a Christian, moving slowly to being an Agnostic. I have started to read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and so far I have had a hard time putting it down. I will let you know if it pushes my over to Atheism or not
Agnosticism is not making statements for which you have no evidence.  Atheism is not believing in any gods.  So the question comes up - do you believe in God or not?

You can't both not believe and not not believe - that's logically nonsense.  If you have any belief in any god at all you're still a theist.  If you have none you're an atheist.

If you claim that god does or doesn't exist, something no one can know, you're gnostic.  If you don't you're agnostic.

There are 4 possibilities:
1 - Gnostic theist ("God exists")
2 - Agnostic theist ("I believe in God but I have no evidence that he's real")
3 - Gnostic atheist ("there is no god")
4 - Agnostic atheist ("I don't believe in any gods and I haven't seen any evidence that any exist")

Agnostic isn't a midpoint between theist and atheist.

As for your question, Dawkins is good, Hitchens is good, Hawking is good, a physics book is good.  Which will give YOU more depends on where you're starting from.

While reading The God Delusion, I ran across Richard Dawkin's list of beliefs...

1 Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C. G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'
2 Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there.'
3 Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'
4 Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'
5 Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. 'I don't know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be sceptical.'
6 Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'
7 Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.'

Richard Dawkins said he is a "6". I used to be a "1", now I see myself at this point around a "4.5".  :-k
Quote from: \"the_antithesis\"We\'re a bunch of twats on the internet. We can\'t help you. You should see a psychologist.