Texas House OK's abortion bill; Senate up next

[Brian37]

I am also against arbitrary, blanket abortion laws.  I am also concerned that this latest legislation may lay the groundwork for making abortion functionally illegal through a series of piecemeal measures.

Thank you. If anyone reading this thinks the backers of such laws really care about girls/women, they have their heads up their asses. This is an attack on women's rights and women's health.

[Brian37]

Bullshit, terminal medical problems already in the fetus, or threat to the life of the mother, rape and incest. Those things don't cease to be potential problems because of an arbitrary timeline. Not to mention it is not your body and you are not going to raise the kid. And there has never been enough people who adopt in any case, even if there are lots who will.

what if the father is willing to raise the kid?

I don't have a vagina, I cant get pregnant.

[Plu]

Myeah. I guess it's pointless to discuss this further with you Brian. You don't seem interested in an actual discussion. Count me out.

[Brian37]

Because that's something completely different from "there should be no laws regarding abortions at all"

Where  did I say there should be no laws about abortions?

Highways have speed limits, so yea, abortions should be in safe environments, just like you have 25mph in school zones. I don't think abortions should be done in unregulated places, but what the right wing is doing will have that affect.

But whatever laws can only address how they can be done safely. The laws should not take away the privacy of the doctor or the girl/woman.

You can only make abortions safer, but you cannot ban them, which these types of laws are ultimately long term trying to do.

Case by case can only be decided by the doctor and patient. Laws outside that can only address safety of environment, like seat belts on cars or speed limits on highways.

The right wing is trying to gut through as someone in this thread said "piecemeal" as much of Roe V Wade they can. What they will do is send girls and women to the unregulated dangerous conditions that existed before Roe V Wade.

[Brian37]

Myeah. I guess it's pointless to discuss this further with you Brian. You don't seem interested in an actual discussion. Count me out.

Why? So it is a "discussion" when I agree with you, and ignorance on my part when I dont.

Ok.

Still cant answer my questions.

1. "Can you guarantee every pregnancy after that cut off point will result in a safe birth and healthy and wanted baby"?

2. "Do you have a medical degree?"

3. "Can you guarantee any unwanted baby will be adopted, even if born healthy"

4. "What should be the charge and punishment of a girl/woman who breaks the cut off laws suggested"?

[surly74]

[ Image ]

Assholes who are not doctors, that is what I am yelling about.

Life is not a utopia. The fact that abortions happen no one likes or sets out to get pregnant just to have one.

This has everything to do with using social issues to divide society, and nothing to do with any pragmatic laws that could actually work.

Medical threats can and do happen throughout the entire pregnancy. Quality of life after birth is just as important as the health of the mother and fetus before birth.

You cannot pragmatically make sweeping laws on an issue that can only  be decided medically case by case.

Now the other issue people don't want to consider is this.

Ok, lets say you get a ban on abortion after a certain time. What should be the punishment of 14 or 15 year old girl who gets one illegally after that time frame? Murder? Manslaughter? What punishment should we give them?

i'm not against abortions.

i'm just wondering why you are so upset and thought the image was appropriate.

[surly74]

Bullshit, terminal medical problems already in the fetus, or threat to the life of the mother, rape and incest. Those things don't cease to be potential problems because of an arbitrary timeline. Not to mention it is not your body and you are not going to raise the kid. And there has never been enough people who adopt in any case, even if there are lots who will.

what if the father is willing to raise the kid?

I don't have a vagina, I cant get pregnant.

oh I don't know about not having a vagina.

[Plu]

Ah, I see you've calmed down. Now you're actually making sense again. You're mixing in all kinds of "things currently happening" and other current events, many of which I know nothing about (the opening post in the topic wasn't exactly helpful there, either) with your own stance.

But it seems like you're somewhere along the line of "we should have options to allow abortions be performed safely and ultimately make it the choice of the girl and her doctor, with the safety of mother and child being the most important factor"?
That sounds like a pretty reasonable position. I think it's roughly where we're at where I live, with life threatening situations meaning the woman can choose to have an abortion at any point (or an early delivery), but it's still her choice whether she wants to risk it, and abortions being allowed by default up until about 24 weeks, after which you've had almost half a year to think about it and you're expected to have decided to keep it.

Would you be ok with something along those lines? I've always considered it the best of both worlds; with the safety and choice of the mother secured, but also some protection for the child and other people invested in the child after it's been around long enough for them to really start bonding with it as well. I wouldn't be ok with a situation where a mother decides to abort a child weeks before a birth because she's sick of it. At that point it might be the mother's body, but it's going to be incredibly hurtful to the father and grandparents as well. As some point, they start mattering as well. Especially once they can see and feel the child themselves as well. And especially if they could simply deliver the child and have it survive on its own, with the father or grandparents raising it. There's no reason left at that point to kill the baby, unless the mother's life is in danger (but even then, it's often just as easy to deliver the child as it is to abort it)

[Plu]

Why? So it is a "discussion" when I agree with you, and ignorance on my part when I dont.

It's a discussion until at least one side starts raving like a madman and being all emotional and no longer present rational arguments or seems interesting in defending their side, or learning of the other side's. As for your questions; if you still care about the answers now that you seem a little less emotional, I'll answer them for you. But it seemed pointless to ask questions when you were seemd rather uninterested in considering the answers.

[Brian37]

No, madmen shoot abortion doctors. Madmen slam planes into buildings. "Fuck you you are not a doctor" is a fact. " "Fuck you if it is not your body" is a fact.

Can we also write laws forcing men who get their nuts cut off when they produce kids they don't pay for? How many men would put up with that?

These abortion laws are not about women's health, it is about undermining the lives of women and taking their control away from them.

[Plu]

And we're back to emotional ranting. Well, it was fun while it lasted.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

1. "Can you guarantee every pregnancy after that cut off point will result in a safe birth and healthy and wanted baby"?

Thou must accept what thy LORD has given him, or some shit like that.

2. "Do you have a medical degree?"

No, but I saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel once.

3. "Can you guarantee any unwanted baby will be adopted, even if born healthy"

Only if they're born overseas.

4. "What should be the charge and punishment of a girl/woman who breaks the cut off laws suggested"?

Stoning, preferably with cannabis.


On a more serious note, I have never understood why a choice concerning a non-sentient wad of flesh is even considered to be an issue, especially by my fellow men. It ain't your body, shut the crap up.

[Brian37]

And we're back to emotional ranting. Well, it was fun while it lasted.

Ok,

Once again,

1. Can you guarantee the health and safety of the girl/women in EVERY CASE if such laws are implemented?

2. Are you medically qualified to determine anything about girls/women/s pregnancies?

3. If you force a girl/women, to term via law, can you guarantee that kid, if unwanted will get a home and be properly taken care of? Can you guarantee every forced birth will be a healthy kid and or get adopted?

4. If such laws are put in place, what should the charge be against the girl/women who has an abortion after the cut off date? What should the punishment be?

If you cant answer those questions or refuse to answer them, then a "fuck you" is perfectly acceptable.

Your utopia crap is making my dick itch.

[Brian37]

1. "Can you guarantee every pregnancy after that cut off point will result in a safe birth and healthy and wanted baby"?

Thou must accept what thy LORD has given him, or some shit like that.

2. "Do you have a medical degree?"

No, but I saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel once.

3. "Can you guarantee any unwanted baby will be adopted, even if born healthy"

Only if they're born overseas.

4. "What should be the charge and punishment of a girl/woman who breaks the cut off laws suggested"?

Stoning, preferably with cannabis.


On a more serious note, I have never understood why a choice concerning a non-sentient wad of flesh is even considered to be an issue, especially by my fellow men. It ain't your body, shut the crap up.

Well, even when there is a point a fetus can feel pain, you still are subject to all sorts of shit that can go wrong in all the points of the pregnancy. There simply is no way for these laws to work pragmatically. The only thing you can do is make abortion as safe as possible.

I agree, ultimately it is not your body. All these laws will succeed in doing is forcing desperate girls/women into dangerous unsafe conditions where quacks will prey upon them.

And not once in this thread, or anywhere have I heard one credible answer as to what the charge should be or the punishment should be for a girl/women who breaks these suggested laws if put in place.

[Plu]

Your utopia crap is making my dick itch.

What utopia crap? The only I've said so far is currently implemented law in my own country. I've not said anything utopian so far.