George Zimmerman: Weak Prosecution

Started by wolf39us, July 06, 2013, 05:22:04 PM

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Seabear

Quote from: "Jmpty"You guys should check out some of the other stories in The New American. Apparently death panels ARE real.

Lol, well, maybe one can ignore them out of hand, if that's the case...
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Shiranu

If nothing else, it at least revealed the stupidity of the stand your ground laws.

I still think stalking and provoking someone makes you at fault, but if the law says otherwise... well, I guess it is what it is.
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Johan

Quote from: "Shiranu"If nothing else, it at least revealed the stupidity of the stand your ground laws.

I still think stalking and provoking someone makes you at fault, but if the law says otherwise... well, I guess it is what it is.
I agree 100%. But I can almost guarantee someone will be along to point out that there is nothing illegal about following another person nor is there anything illegal about acting in a way that might make the other person feel threatened enough to attack you.

And they're right, there is nothing ilegal about it. But just like you, I think it constitutes provoking someone into attacking you which ought to negate any application of the stand your ground law IMO. But what do I know? I'm just a schmuck from up North. :shrug:
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Colanth

Quote from: "Seabear"Fuck the law - let's vote on what happens to him
It's called jury nullification.  The jury quite often votes not on whether the prosecution proved its case, but on whether the law should be applied (or, in this case, they may vote on whether "stand your ground" should apply).

Quote from: "Johan"there is nothing illegal about following another person
Depending on circumstances, you could be charged with stalking.

Quotenor is there anything illegal about acting in a way that might make the other person feel threatened enough to attack you.
Inciting to commit assault.

QuoteAnd they're right, there is nothing ilegal about it.
Oh, there is.  It just takes a courageous prosecutor to try to prosecute it.  "Law and Order" isn't very realistic.

QuoteBut just like you, I think it constitutes provoking someone into attacking you which ought to negate any application of the stand your ground law IMO.
I think "stand your ground" laws should all be done away with, except for attacks that occur within your home or place of work.  You shouldn't be legally obligated to run from a place you have more legal right to be in than the person attacking you has.
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Hurt

Quote from: "Colanth"I think "stand your ground" laws should all be done away with, except for attacks that occur within your home or place of work.  You shouldn't be legally obligated to run from a place you have more legal right to be in than the person attacking you has.

I think you shouldn't be legally obligated to run from a public sidewalk. Stand your ground serves a legitimate purpose, it may need to be tweaked but not done away with.
Cui Bono

hillbillyatheist

Zimmerman might be guilty of stalking the kid and should face penalties for that. but if he is proven to have killed the kid because of self defense, than he isn't guilty of murder.

just because he's guilty of the first doesn't make him guilty of the second.

lets assume Treyvon had kiled Zimmerman.

would you excuse the killing because Treyvon was provoked by being followed? if not then you acknowledge zimmermans wrongful act of stalking doesn't negate his right to self defense if Treyvon attacked him.

Zimmerman was wrong to stalk the kid,  and not listen to the 911 operator. Treyvon was wrong to attack instead of calling the cops. (assuming Treyvon attacked first)

now if it turns out Zimmerman also started the fight, as well as the stalking, then he is guilty of second degree murder imo.
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Jason Harvestdancer

Zimmerman didn't invoke the Stand Your Ground law at trial.  He only invoked self defense.
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random_person

Right, from my English law perspective, I would consider Zimmerman to probably be guilty of assault at common law (intentionally or recklessly causing another to anticipate immediate unlawful force). As for the homicide issue at hand, whilst my knowledge of how self-defence has been developed by the courts and legislature in Florida is admittedly limited, if I've understood correctly, like in my jurisdiction, there is no general duty to retreat. Here invoking self-defence in criminal law would require the belief in the threat to be honest and the force to be reasonable. Can anybody tell me what the stance is in Florida? Does the belief have to be honest and reasonable or honest alone? Does the force need to be reasonable/proportionate?

aitm

The nigger was walking around at night for christ sake...AT NIGHT....in a mostly white neighborhood....jesus h christ and then, mother fucker was wearing a HOODIE! Got damn that is all I need to put my huntin boots on, we just can't have that shit in modern day amurica.....fuck no.
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formality_is_key

Quote from: "aitm"The nigger was walking around at night for christ sake...AT NIGHT....in a mostly white neighborhood....jesus h christ and then, mother fucker was wearing a HOODIE! Got damn that is all I need to put my huntin boots on, we just can't have that shit in modern day amurica.....fuck no.
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mykcob4

Quote from: "wolf39us"http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15909-zimmerman-prosecution-imploding-analysts-say

QuoteThe prosecution of George Zimmerman for second-degree murder in the killing of Trayvon Martin last year appears to be collapsing, thanks in large part to testimony offered by witnesses called by prosecutors, according to legal experts and analysts. Even though the judge refused to allow Martin's history of drug use, fighting, and school suspensions into evidence, explosive witness testimony provided during the trial may still prove devastating to authorities and their bid to convict Zimmerman.

More than a few commentators have suggested that the murder charges were concocted to satisfy race profiteers, the out-of-control U.S. Justice Department, and the establishment media. Critics of the prosecution, including heavy-hitting law professors and attorneys, say prosecutors have engaged in ethical violations in what appears, to many analysts at least, to be an over-zealous bid to convict Zimmerman in the absence of solid evidence.  
I've been watching this trial and it seems to me that noone in their right mind could find Zimmeran innocent. He foolowed the boy, lied about his knowledge of the streets, told a wild story that makes NO sense concerning the fight and how the gun came into play. Even with all the pro-gun conservaturds who are suppose to give "expert" testimony, you can't get around the fact that Travon Martin had NO blood on his hands and didn't start the fight. You can't get around the fact that Zimmerman has changed his story no less than eight times sometimes in the very same sentence. The most damaging is the interview with Hannity. Hannity interviewed Zimmerman because FOX is pro Zimmerman and Hannity was throwing softballs for Zimmerman to answer. Zimmerman screwed up and said that Martin was running away, then caught himself and said that Martin was skipping away. He then states that is was "god's will' as if god wanted Zimmerman to kill Martin. When Hannity asked him if he could change things the unremorseful Zimmerman said no!
It is plain to see that Zimmerman is a macho wannabe and stalked Martin and because of that attitude and mindset he KILLED Martin!

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: "mykcob4"
Quote from: "wolf39us"http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15909-zimmerman-prosecution-imploding-analysts-say

QuoteThe prosecution of George Zimmerman for second-degree murder in the killing of Trayvon Martin last year appears to be collapsing, thanks in large part to testimony offered by witnesses called by prosecutors, according to legal experts and analysts. Even though the judge refused to allow Martin's history of drug use, fighting, and school suspensions into evidence, explosive witness testimony provided during the trial may still prove devastating to authorities and their bid to convict Zimmerman.

More than a few commentators have suggested that the murder charges were concocted to satisfy race profiteers, the out-of-control U.S. Justice Department, and the establishment media. Critics of the prosecution, including heavy-hitting law professors and attorneys, say prosecutors have engaged in ethical violations in what appears, to many analysts at least, to be an over-zealous bid to convict Zimmerman in the absence of solid evidence.  
I've been watching this trial and it seems to me that noone in their right mind could find Zimmeran innocent. He foolowed the boy, lied about his knowledge of the streets, told a wild story that makes NO sense concerning the fight and how the gun came into play. Even with all the pro-gun conservaturds who are suppose to give "expert" testimony, you can't get around the fact that Travon Martin had NO blood on his hands and didn't start the fight. You can't get around the fact that Zimmerman has changed his story no less than eight times sometimes in the very same sentence. The most damaging is the interview with Hannity. Hannity interviewed Zimmerman because FOX is pro Zimmerman and Hannity was throwing softballs for Zimmerman to answer. Zimmerman screwed up and said that Martin was running away, then caught himself and said that Martin was skipping away. He then states that is was "god's will' as if god wanted Zimmerman to kill Martin. When Hannity asked him if he could change things the unremorseful Zimmerman said no!
It is plain to see that Zimmerman is a macho wannabe and stalked Martin and because of that attitude and mindset he KILLED Martin!
Source for the bolded part? I think you're talking about the prosecution's witnesses, mate, not Zimmerman.

I'd also like a link to this interview you claim is so damaging, if you wouldn't mind.
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Johan

Quote from: "mykcob4"you can't get around the fact that Travon Martin had NO blood on his hands and didn't start the fight.
How is it known as a fact that Martin didn't start the fight?
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The Skeletal Atheist

Quote from: "Johan"
Quote from: "mykcob4"you can't get around the fact that Travon Martin had NO blood on his hands and didn't start the fight.
How is it known as a fact that Martin didn't start the fight?
This. I agree that the Zimmerman used excessive force even if Martin started the fight, but how do you know that he didn't start the fight? Iirc they're still trying to figure that part out.
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_Xenu_

The prosecution has won the argument that the jury should be able to convict him of the lesser charge of manslaughter. They wouldn't go that route if they were confident of a guilty verdict.
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