Proof that life didn't originate on Earth?

[Voskhod]

Ah, yes. But the problem with the Miller/Urey Experiment, not that I disagree with its implications/conclusions, is that it only resulted in the creation of amino acids - not cellular life itself, which would have also required the creation of the already extremely complicated DNA sequences of early lifeforms.

[Brian37]

No, look, evolution certainly should be capable elsewhere in such a gigantic universe. I only think it exists, not because of established life forms piggybacking. But because the separate atoms that by themselves are plentiful.

Much like cultures in human evolution can make up flood stories without ever meeting each other ever. CONDITIONS, not life. Conditions of life are not a result of a "first life". Conditions of life are the same as a hurricane or tornado happening. Many parts, not a prior hurricane or smaller hurricane leading to another hurricane.


Now it also, even cosmically locally, that simple life forms like bacteria could exist on other planets in our solar system. But, travel to me would be local and the odds of us being a plant, even at that low level are highly unlikely.

I think it is more likely and conceivable that multiple non life ingredients that made up atoms simply over long periods of time managed to hit the same target over long periods of time under the right weather conditions.

[Hakurei Reimu]

Are those modern prokaryotes and eukaryotes? If so, why should the size of their genomes have any relevance to how long it takes for DNA to acquire base length, given that they have been evolving too alongside with us?

You do know that prokaryotes and eukaryotes didn't just put on the evolutionary brakes when they evolved, right?

[PickelledEggs]

Ah, yes. But the problem with the Miller/Urey Experiment, not that I disagree with its implications/conclusions, is that it only resulted in the creation of amino acids - not cellular life itself, which would have also required the creation of the already extremely complicated DNA sequences of early lifeforms.

Very true. The thing is though. If it started on another planet, it still origionated from very basic ooze type building blocks. Be it that that particular experiment was the first step or not... it started somewhere. And unless Ancient Aliens is right, which is a hilarous show by the way (it's basically a whole other theology the way I see it), the only way life could have traveled here was by some sort of falling mass of rock.

If it fell from space on a rock, life probably would have burned up in the layers of the atmosphere. Given that it could survive without any sort of air in the first place.

Basically it is much more likely that it started here on earth. Not totally out of the question that it came from another planet, or even origionated in the depths of space its self as basic space bacteria, but that seems a lot less likely.

[Brian37]

Ah, yes. But the problem with the Miller/Urey Experiment, not that I disagree with its implications/conclusions, is that it only resulted in the creation of amino acids - not cellular life itself, which would have also required the creation of the already extremely complicated DNA sequences of early lifeforms.

Very true. The thing is though. If it started on another planet, it still origionated from very basic ooze type building blocks. Be it that that particular experiment was the first step or not... it started somewhere. And unless Ancient Aliens is right, which is a hilarous show by the way (it's basically a whole other theology the way I see it), the only way life could have traveled here was by some sort of falling mass of rock.

If it fell from space on a rock, life probably would have burned up in the layers of the atmosphere. Given that it could survive without any sort of air in the first place.

Basically it is much more likely that it started here on earth. Not totally out of the question that it came from another planet, or even origionated in the depths of space its self as basic space bacteria, but that seems a lot less likely.

Yes thank you. Atoms are not complex structures compared to fossils.

I think there should be life, even simple life that is abundant in the universe. But, I think it is all local and subject to the same science.

It would piss me off if there was a God or some "cosmic programer" doing all this. I don't want to think about "all this" as being grand or being lab rats. We are, and as a species, to a lesser or greater degree, have it better or worse, but our ride always ends out the same. Knowing that you are not special in "all this" frees you up to enjoy the ride while it lasts and and takes you off your narcissistic perch.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Okay, help me out. A rock from Mars took about a million years to reach Earth. If life started in some other solar system and drifted here, how long would that take? And what are the odds?

[Hakurei Reimu]

Very much longer, easily billions of years, which wouldn't leave much time for evolving and getting more advanced.

And Voskhod still hasn't answered my questions about whether the organisms compared are modern organisms or their ancient counterparts. If they're modern, then they have gone through a fair amount of evolution themselves — modern prokaryotes are evolutionary heavyweights. It's the evolutionary ladder myth all over again. If they are the ancient counterparts, how was their genomes estimated for the comparison to be made?

[PickelledEggs]

Knowing that you are not special in "all this" frees you up to enjoy the ride while it lasts and and takes you off your narcissistic perch.

QFT

[Voskhod]

Very much longer, easily billions of years, which wouldn't leave much time for evolving and getting more advanced.

And Voskhod still hasn't answered my questions about whether the organisms compared are modern organisms or their ancient counterparts. If they're modern, then they have gone through a fair amount of evolution themselves — modern prokaryotes are evolutionary heavyweights. It's the evolutionary ladder myth all over again. If they are the ancient counterparts, how was their genomes estimated for the comparison to be made?

Sadly I can't seem to find any clarification on the part of the graph-maker on whether he used the genome-size of modern Prokaryotes or used some sort of artificial method of estimating their supposed genome-size 3.8 BYA.

[Solitary]

We live on an active planet, which makes life more likely to start here.


We live on an active planet, and so it's likely life started here, or been seeded from life somewhere else. Using Ockham's razor it would seem more likely it started here because all the planets nearby are not active. Evolution doesn't always take a lot of time, and we have had most of life forms here go extinct many times in the past. Solitary










it

[PopeyesPappy]

The genome of the flower paris japonica has 149 billion base pairs. I guess it has been evolving since before the Big Bang.  

[BarkAtTheMoon]

The thing that graph ignores is all the non-life build up before that first organism and possible first primitive life that left no traces. Complexity of organic material and combinations of amino acids almost certainly didn't begin with the first living organism. There was just a minimal level of complexity that could be considered life.

Panspermia never really impressed me as a concept. All it does is add an additional level of improbability and pushes the origin of life, which we already know life is here, to some unknown hypothetical planet somewhere else and needing to get here somehow.

[Plu]

The thing that graph ignores is all the non-life build up before that first organism and possible first primitive life that left no traces. Complexity of organic material and combinations of amino acids almost certainly didn't begin with the first living organism. There was just a minimal level of complexity that could be considered life.

This would be my first guess as well. Life is built from the perfect building blocks for more life. Which means it gets recycled all the time. There wouldn't be much left in the ways of fossils that we could use to determine the genome make-up of really old bacteria, and modern bacteria are very complex things.

[Aupmanyav]

Sadly I can't seem to find any clarification on the part of the graph-maker on whether he used the genome-size of modern Prokaryotes or used some sort of artificial method of estimating their supposed genome-size 3.8 BYA.

Sadly, I cannot know who originally posted the image and why, and why should I trust it? It would not be surprising that some organic molecules came to Earth through meteorites, but then life developed on Earth. After all, we live in a universe which surprises us at every step.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Sadly I can't seem to find any clarification on the part of the graph-maker on whether he used the genome-size of modern Prokaryotes or used some sort of artificial method of estimating their supposed genome-size 3.8 BYA.

Sadly, I cannot know who originally posted the image and why, and why should I trust it? It would not be surprising that some organic molecules came to Earth through meteorites, but then life developed on Earth. After all, we live in a universe which surprises us at every step.

Any flatline model like that is automatically suspect.