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Former theists compared to never theists

Started by GSOgymrat, July 01, 2013, 03:08:37 AM

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GSOgymrat

Do you think there is a difference in attitude between people who have never been religious compared to people who were once religious and are now atheist?

Plu

Definately. What's more interesting to ask is "Is there a difference in attitude between theists and people who have never been religious?"

You'll probably find very little of it. People who have never actually thought about the big philosophical questions and their place in the universe (which I reckon is most of them), whether religious or not, seem to act about the same.

Gawdzilla Sama

I was never religious and I have a hard time putting myself in the shoes of the person I'm [s:1jw1slvo]abusing[/s:1jw1slvo] debating.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Fidel_Castronaut

I've never been religious but it's impossible for me to compare.

I'm just as much of an asshole as anyone else on here so...
lol, marquee. HTML ROOLZ!

SGOS

I don't know the answer to this question, but I've wondered about it at times.  You would think Ex theists might be in a position to better understand the dynamics of an unsupported belief, since they had once been that way.  Not that this is helpful.  You could understand that dynamic like a psychological Stephen Hawking, but still be utterly unable to help others see the problems with unsupported belief.

stromboli

Level of disgust/hate, probably. I belonged to 2 religions and feel burned by both. So I guess I am more emotional towards religion than someone who was never attached.

_Xenu_

Interesting topic! I was born into a Catholic family, but the indoctrination never really took. Therefore, I tend to be fairly live and let live about this sort of thing.
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Savior2006

Quote from: "_Xenu_"Interesting topic! I was born into a Catholic family, but the indoctrination never really took. Therefore, I tend to be fairly live and let live about this sort of thing.

Basically like this, except for the Catholic part. But there's so many out their who have no intention of the "let live."
It took science to do what people imagine God can do.
--ApostateLois

"The closer you are to God the further you are from the truth."
--St Giordano

StupidWiz

Quote from: "stromboli"Level of disgust/hate, probably. I belonged to 2 religions and feel burned by both. So I guess I am more emotional towards religion than someone who was never attached.
Definitely this. The idea that it took 20+ years of my life to finally be free from religious bullshit. I feel like I've been... cheated? I don't know...  :(
... To teach superstitions as truths is the most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can they be in after years relieved of them. - Hypatia

SGOS

Quote from: "StupidWiz"
Quote from: "stromboli"Level of disgust/hate, probably. I belonged to 2 religions and feel burned by both. So I guess I am more emotional towards religion than someone who was never attached.
Definitely this. The idea that it took 20+ years of my life to finally be free from religious bullshit. I feel like I've been... cheated? I don't know...  :(
I don't know either.  Cheated?  Not so much.  Bullshitted?  Absolutely.  But I've been bullshitted about stuff so much of my life that I can't hold religion entirely responsible.  I've been bullshitted by my church, my government, my boss, my family, my insurance agent.  You name it.  Just about anyone who wanted something from me has bullshitted me.  There's more bullshit out there than fact.  It's up to us to sort it out.  Now sure, religious indoctrination at an early age is a type of brainwashing that is not easy to overcome and leaves people intellectually, emotionally, and logically disabled, so it's not like you just give someone a pep talk and tell them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.  Some of them can't, and while that's a shame, it's up to ourselves to do our own reasoning.  No one else can do that for us.

Edit:  Well actually, someone else can to that for us, and often wants desperately to do so.  And some of us are happy to let them do it.

Aletheia

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"These are just personal observations:

-Never been theists are usually more objective on different cultures created under different religions and better at understanding the fact that religion is one huge pile of bullshit and there are countless factors and dynamics at work in creating any religious culture. They are least likely to see issues in black&white.

This I can agree with. I see all religions regardless of cultural background as being equally bizarre and lacking in logic.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are least likely to be nationalists and more likely to criticise their own, more likely to be loud about it.

Nationalism tends to share some similarities with religion - particularly the cherry-picking mentality. However, I choose my fights carefully when it comes to criticizing such things when considering those around me.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to come from highly educated, secular families and their sense of individuality is likely to be more developed in early age and separated from the herd.

Poorly educated, religious extended family and my sense of individuality was derived from a horrible childhood. I could've just as easily have turned to religion for a crutch. So, nothing particularly remarkable about my upbringing.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to get loud about an issue that is not directly related to them.

We don't exactly butt-in to other people's conversations - at least I don't unless some imperative dictates I must forgo etiquette. Furthermore, this is an atheist forum, not a "former theist" forum, so many of the topics here already welcomes the "never been theists."

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists least likely to employ traditional roles in family, work place, society...etc.

Yes, and no. I don't go against the grain just for the hell of it. If I agree with the logic of these roles, then I follow along. I do not, then I will request clarification, and if all else fails, then I will go against the grain because I must follow the more logical route whenever possible.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to be strong atheists.

Nope. Still have not jumped off the deep end and made the assertion that I know for a fact there is no god. All I can ever really say is that I have yet to see any evidence in favor of a deity existing. In short, I am still a weak atheist.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to be insensitive to problems to ex-theists faced or religious people have to face.

I think you confuse insensitive with inexperienced. I am quite sympathetic to deconverts, but I never make the assumption that I personally know what they have went through. Crossing that line would seem to do deconverts a great disservice. They have their stories to tell if they so choose and I offer a willing sympathetic ear.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"E: Oh and they are more likely to be assholes and bitches.

This may have less to do with whether a person is a "never been theist" and more to do with personality clashes. It's never been my intention to portray myself as an asshole or a bitch on this forum or in real life. Despite my dark moodiness here, I'm actually a very friendly person who is very apt to help others whenever possible. I've never been one to take into account a person's religion, lack of religion, or state of deconvertedness when assessing who is deserving of my help. I merely react to the plea and give what I can when I can.

Generalizations can be a tad tricky at times.
Quote from: Jakenessif you believe in the supernatural, you do not understand modern science. Period.

_Xenu_

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"These are just personal observations:

-Never been theists are usually more objective on different cultures created under different religions and better at understanding the fact that religion is one huge pile of bullshit and there are countless factors and dynamics at work in creating any religious culture. They are least likely to see issues in black&white.
Never thought about it and can't comment.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are least likely to be nationalists and more likely to criticise their own, more likely to be loud about it.
I do tend towards a law and order approach to things, but thats because I've had some really bad experiences in life and the law seems more concerned with protecting my perpetrators than me.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to come from highly educated, secular families and their sense of individuality is likely to be more developed in early age and separated from the herd.
Highly educated? Yes. Secular? No, not really. If anything, Catholicism was heavily pushed on me from an early age. Its what got me thinking about religion to begin with.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to get loud about an issue that is not directly related to them.
Some truth there, but I suspect that has more to do with being born into a relatively wealthy family than anything else. Since my own needs are easily met, I seek outside causes.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists least likely to employ traditional roles in family, work place, society...etc.
Thats too broad of a statement to really comment on.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to be strong atheists.
True enough.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to be insensitive to problems to ex-theists faced or religious people have to face.
Admittedly so. I don't really grasp that perspective, I figured this out before middle school.

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"E: Oh and they are more likely to be assholes and bitches.
Right back at ya, Shoezy.  :finga:
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Triple Nine

Former theists have that hatred against religion. They are more likely to claim themselves openly as atheists and are less sympathetic to religion. Former theists tend to be more likely to know the arguments against religion.
Playing: Skullgirls
On hold: Shin Megami Tensei IV (3DS)
Pokemon X & Y (3DS)
Whenever I get my GODDAMNED 3DS back  \":evil:\"
Religion, Nationalism, and Racism is all under the evil wing of Conservatism and preservation of useless traditions!

the_antithesis

Do you think there is a difference in attitude between people who have never been raped in prison compared to people who were?

Gawdzilla Sama

I was never religious and I do find it hard to put myself into the mindset that admits the possibility that fairies, pixies, elves, etc., can be real. It's rather like never having eaten haggis and having someone tell you it's great.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers