Author Topic: Civil War???  (Read 318 times)

Civil War???
« on: January 04, 2022, 10:50:05 AM »
Two stories bother me--

The next US civil war is already here – we just refuse to see it
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/next-us-civil-war-already-here-we-refuse-to-see-it

The right has recognized that the system is in collapse, and it has a plan: violence and solidarity with treasonous far-right factions

Stephen Marche
Tue 4 Jan 2022 05.00 EST

Nobody wants what’s coming, so nobody wants to see what’s coming.

On the eve of the first civil war, the most intelligent, the most informed, the most dedicated people in the United States could not see it coming. Even when Confederate soldiers began their bombardment of Fort Sumter, nobody believed that conflict was inevitable. The north was so unprepared for the war they had no weapons.


Violent Conflict Expert Envisions Right-Wing Dictatorship 'By 2030, If Not Sooner'
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/right-wing-dictatorship-by-2030-warning_n_61d40c28e4b0c7d8b8a75cad

Trump could return to the White House and serve as “the wrecking ball that demolishes democracy” to produce “a political and social shambles,” Homer-Dixon wrote. That would set the stage “for a more managerially competent ruler” to “bring order to the chaos he’s created,” he added.

“We mustn’t dismiss these possibilities just because they seem ludicrous or too horrible to imagine,” the political scientist continued. “In 2014, the suggestion that Donald Trump would become president would also have struck nearly everyone as absurd. But today we live in a world where the absurd regularly becomes real and the horrible commonplace.”


These two stories dovetail to reflect my greatest fears for the future of this country.  As I see it, the unthinkable is upon us and is becoming reality. 

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2022, 12:06:38 PM »
The wakeup call was probably when Obama won. I struggle to understand what a post successful overthrow looks like. Highly paid whites picking tomatoes under the hot sun instead of underpaid Mexicans? A 50 foot wall on the southern border? Social security and Medicare gone and buried. Black/white only bathrooms. The president giving biblical sermons.

Fucking Morons.

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2022, 01:22:08 PM »
I'm not certain what a US civil war would look like. Red states versus blue states? Civil war is not just civil unrest, street violence, and terrorist attacks. A dictatorship is not a civil war. Civil war involves military action-- tanks, aircraft dropping bombs, etcetera. I wonder how China and Russia would respond.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2022, 01:24:12 PM by GSOgymrat »

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2022, 01:31:44 PM »
I don't know how much room I have left to be scared, but this is really scary.
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2022, 01:47:33 PM »
The wakeup call was probably when Obama won. I struggle to understand what a post successful overthrow looks like. Highly paid whites picking tomatoes under the hot sun instead of underpaid Mexicans? A 50 foot wall on the southern border? Social security and Medicare gone and buried. Black/white only bathrooms. The president giving biblical sermons.

Fucking Morons.

I think you are correct about Obama's win.  It was a signal to the white nationalists that this very well could be the future and that future would be colored and not white.  I, too, struggle to understand (just about everything) what a fascist govt would look like here.  And how it will be obtained.  What I do know is that white nationalism is not a regional movement, but a totally national one.  And they are highly armed and trained--they are in large numbers in the military and police depts around the nation.  And they have been around forever.   
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2022, 06:29:46 PM »
Civil War? Ask the guy who blew up that Federal Building. We too comfortable to help such a thing get going.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2022, 09:10:16 PM »
The problem with a civil war right now is that the lines go straight through Nana's kitchen.  It isn't clear cut at this time.

Back when Antifa started getting violent, my response was "Bad idea.  Wait until people respond with violence.  Also, they'll be better at it than you are."  Now we get posts like Mike's where he expresses grave concern over right wing violence, just as I predicted 4 years ago.

The problem with getting violent is it spurs others into violence in response.  The right can honestly say "we didn't start it" at this time.
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.

No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2022, 09:15:19 PM »
The right hasn't said anything honestly for decades now.  And whever trump opens his mouth it is simply assumed he is lying. 

Of course, after antifa stormed Congress, it is no wonder the right is in the right on this stuff.  They are totally innocent--just ask them.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2022, 09:19:33 PM »
The right hasn't said anything honestly for decades now.  And whever trump opens his mouth it is simply assumed he is lying. 

Of course, after antifa stormed Congress, it is no wonder the right is in the right on this stuff.  They are totally innocent--just ask them.

I never said Antifa stormed congress.  However, there are the many and myriad "mostly peaceful protests" that occurred between Trump's 2016 inauguration and the election of Joe Biden.  Including a failed firebombing of an ICE facility, the shooting of the congressional baseball game, and the whole fiasco of CHAZ/CHOP.  The only common denominator is how bad the left is at violence, so very bad at it, that they should never have tried it in the first place.
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.

No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2022, 10:29:00 PM »
The key to bringing the left and right towards the middle is to discuss what we REALLY want the US to be in 3 or 10 years. You would find much agreement...all people want financial security, health/safety, fun and personal freedoms. I wish there was a national forum or TV show where average people and experts could discuss issues calmly and the audience could relearn how civilized, peaceful, constructive people behave.

The other thing that brings a nation is an existential threat either from (a) an external enemy or (b) a looming disaster. Well, we have (b) for sure although it may take another decade for that to sink in.

If we are gonna have a war; please wait 20 years and I won't even give a damn. It would be so nasty when children are suffering like those Syrian war kids...and all for what...fucking ideology.


Online aitm

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2022, 07:12:14 AM »
If such were to happen. We would start with about 10-15 thousand right wing red necks and their targets would not be white people. Can’t tell someone’s political persuasion by looking at him. But people of color are easily assumed to be them damn liberal socialists…

And with any civil war, when started by “one” side….their backers tend to get a lot nervous when the opposition starts shooting back, especially when their kids are suddenly involved. They want a peaceful transfer to their Jesus loves me government meant for them and only them….then the world will be all roses and sunshine.

I have no difficulty seeing that “some one(s)” may attempt to get the ball rolling but hopefully such an event would waken up the milder lunatics to say, “whoa, we don’t want this”.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2022, 11:20:57 AM »
I don't think it would be like a 'war' with armies like the old one. Don't you think, it would be like mafia war on streets here and there, spreading and new rules and laws who ever takes where?
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2022, 12:02:17 PM »
  The only common denominator is how bad the left is at violence, so very bad at it, that they should never have tried it in the first place.
Thanks, first good laugh I've had since July.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online aitm

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2022, 01:25:59 PM »
I don't think it would be like a 'war' with armies like the old one. Don't you think, it would be like mafia war on streets here and there, spreading and new rules and laws who ever takes where?
Pretty much…local tough guy “militias” targeting local peeps they know to be damn socialists. Or they will set up a training run to hit someone out of state and maybe organize with different groups so that each does the others dirty work…keep their faces off local news and confuse the guv’ment. But I think, well hopefully, that should such shit start….mom and dad and sis and brother gonna say, “what the fuck are you,doing”? Hopefully anyway.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Civil War???
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2022, 01:36:51 PM »
I am fuckin so civil that even our wars are civil and in a gentleman way.

I will go and modernize my weapon so my targets can die without pain, in humane way.

Jokes aside;

Thats the way modern warfare tactics and strategy is run.
The conventional methods of war were abandoned for the sake of more effective soft power.

Less casuality and money, more success.
And the more devilishly running project.