Author Topic: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84  (Read 433 times)

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2021, 10:06:53 AM »
I question this.  Bush?  Maybe.  But his advisors, most that were from New American Century, had totally different reasons for invading Iraq.  They were part of what has been called an intellectual think tank, but who were actually naive enough to think we could force Western Capitalism into the Mideast by military action.  That worked with Japan and Germany but those were entirely different situations, for different reasons, and an entirely different strategy.  The Bush inner circle was just a bunch of fools with big weapons. Cheney was probably smart, but also an asshole.
Yeah, I think that Bush being a very religious asshole who consulted with his skydaddy (who can't be wrong) and was picking up where his real daddy left off...probably convinced himself on WMDs. We know all too well that these types of believers don't need real evidence. The back-up plan being that it is still the right thing to do anyways. Cheney and Rumsfeld wanted their war no matter what and Powell was gonna be a team player. I still can hardly believe they didn't have a plan to plant the gun if they knew there were no WMDs.

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2021, 10:49:51 AM »
I question this.  Bush?  Maybe.  But his advisors, most that were from New American Century, had totally different reasons for invading Iraq.  They were part of what has been called an intellectual think tank, but who were actually naive enough to think we could force Western Capitalism into the Mideast by military action.  That worked with Japan and Germany but those were entirely different situations, for different reasons, and an entirely different strategy.  The Bush inner circle was just a bunch of fools with big weapons. Cheney was probably smart, but also an asshole.
From what I learned, the US Govt from Regan on knew of the chemical weapons Iraq had and used.  There is evidence that the US was one source of those weapons as well.  So, at the very least Bush/Cheney and Co. could state that Sadam did have left over chemical weapons from the Iran/Iraq war, because they partially supplied them to him.  If nothing else, it was a convenient lie to use.  The neo-cons were willing to use whatever arguments to get them the power and money they desired. 

Iraq's use of chemical weapons
Main article: Iraqi chemical attacks against Iran

In a declassified 1991 report, the CIA estimated that Iran had suffered more than 50,000 casualties from Iraq's use of several chemical weapons,[258] though current estimates are more than 100,000 as the long-term effects continue to cause casualties.[89][259] The official CIA estimate did not include the civilian population contaminated in bordering towns or the children and relatives of veterans, many of whom have developed blood, lung and skin complications, according to the Organization for Veterans of Iran. According to a 2002 article in the Star-Ledger, 20,000 Iranian soldiers were killed on the spot by nerve gas. As of 2002, 5,000 of the 80,000 survivors continue to seek regular medical treatment, while 1,000 are hospital inpatients.[260][261]

According to Iraqi documents, assistance in developing chemical weapons was obtained from firms in many countries, including the United States, West Germany, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and France. A report stated that Dutch, Australian, Italian, French and both West and East German companies were involved in the export of raw materials to Iraqi chemical weapons factories.[262] Declassified CIA documents show that the United States was providing reconnaissance intelligence to Iraq around 1987–88 which was then used to launch chemical weapon attacks on Iranian troops and that the CIA fully knew that chemical weapons would be deployed and sarin and cyclosarin attacks followed.[263]

On 21 March 1986, the United Nations Security Council made a declaration stating that "members are profoundly concerned by the unanimous conclusion of the specialists that chemical weapons on many occasions have been used by Iraqi forces against Iranian troops, and the members of the Council strongly condemn this continued use of chemical weapons in clear violation of the Geneva Protocol of 1925, which prohibits the use in war of chemical weapons." The United States was the only member who voted against the issuance of this statement.[264][note 10] A mission to the region in 1988 found evidence of the use of chemical weapons, and was condemned in Security Council Resolution 612.


Victims of the 1987 chemical attack on Sardasht, West Azerbaijan, Iran
According to Walter Lang, senior defense intelligence officer at the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency, "the use of gas on the battlefield by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern" to Reagan and his aides, because they "were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". He claimed that the Defense Intelligence Agency "would have never accepted the use of chemical weapons against civilians, but the use against military objectives was seen as inevitable in the Iraqi struggle for survival".[189] The Reagan administration did not stop aiding Iraq after receiving reports of the use of poison gas on Kurdish civilians.[265][266]

The United States accused Iran of using chemical weapons as well,[253]: 214  though the allegations have been disputed. Joost Hiltermann, the principal researcher for Human Rights Watch between 1992 and 1994, conducted a two-year study that included a field investigation in Iraq, and obtained Iraqi government documents in the process. According to Hiltermann, the literature on the Iran–Iraq War reflects allegations of chemical weapons used by Iran, but they are "marred by a lack of specificity as to time and place, and the failure to provide any sort of evidence".[267]: 153 

Analysts Gary Sick and Lawrence Potter have called the allegations against Iran "mere assertions" and stated, "No persuasive evidence of the claim that Iran was the primary culprit [of using chemical weapons] was ever presented."[267]: 156  Policy consultant and author Joseph Tragert stated, "Iran did not retaliate with chemical weapons, probably because it did not possess any at the time".[268]

At his trial in December 2006, Saddam said he would take responsibility "with honour" for any attacks on Iran using conventional or chemical weapons during the war, but that he took issue with the charges that he ordered attacks on Iraqis.[269] A medical analysis of the effects of Iraqi mustard gas is described in a U.S. military textbook and contrasted effects of World War I gas.[270]

At the time of the conflict, the UN Security Council issued statements that "chemical weapons had been used in the war". UN statements never clarified that only Iraq was using chemical weapons, and according to retrospective authors "the international community remained silent as Iraq used weapons of mass destruction against Iranian as well as Iraqi Kurds."[271][272][138]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#Iraq_2
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2021, 05:24:35 PM »
He had multiple myeloma and also Parkinsons.  Of course it was the Covid that killed him.
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.

No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Offline Mermaid

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2021, 12:08:53 PM »
He had multiple myeloma and also Parkinsons.  Of course it was the Covid that killed him.
seriously????????
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities — all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2021, 11:58:35 PM »
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.

No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Offline Shiranu

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2021, 12:57:32 AM »
seriously????????

I'm prone to agree with Jason; while Covid might have tipped him over the edge, it's a bit of a stretch to say that Covid was the actual killer; unfortunately this is this case in a lot of Covid deaths and makes our numbers look far worse than they are.

And no, that doesn't mean I don't think the numbers aren't absolutely terrible or that I don't think people need to start using their brains and take steps to reduce the spread... but I do think it is intentionally being misreported at times to spark up fear for more media views and give the government an excuse to seize more powers that it will not willingly hand back.
Terrorism is when you do what we do but wear a different uniform than us.

Offline SGOS

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2021, 02:10:07 AM »
I'm prone to agree with Jason; while Covid might have tipped him over the edge, it's a bit of a stretch to say that Covid was the actual killer; unfortunately this is this case in a lot of Covid deaths and makes our numbers look far worse than they are.
Information that comes from major world and national health organizations seem to agree that Covid is under-reported in a major way.  Estimates vary from twice as many to ten times as many cases.  From my rural Virginia county, I can say that I know of no one who has died of Covid.  Instead, an unusually large number of hospitalizations seem to be reporting mysterious forms of pneumonia.  But this is a exceptionally conservative/red neck area the majority of which that is not vaccinated.

It is possible that Colin Powell was diagnosed incorrectly, but probably not.  I assume he has access to more than just home town physicians with a coroner that also runs the local hardware store.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 03:18:30 AM by SGOS »

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2021, 02:52:49 AM »
Well, the thing that tips you over is the cause of your death. That's why you are dead. Because if that doesn't happen, you'd live. When a 40 year old dies from a heart attack, something tips over and he dies from a heart attack. When a very healthy 20 year old get hit by a bus, his body cannot handle the massive trauma and he dies. Because 'it tips over', you see. Something always tips over and the organism cannot continue the state of being alive.

So yeah, Colin Powell has died of Covid-19. It doesn't matter hoıw old he was or how many illnesses he already had. That's what a pandemic is. That's why it is so important to control and contain outbreaks from turning into pandemics. Tons of people who would have lived with tons of conditions and illnesses have died of Covid-19 because it is a pandemic. Probably, many more than we know.

Decades after this nightmare ends, this will be the main topic I guess: "How many people have actually died of Covid 19". They are going to look back and write articles like we did/do for 16th century plague. But then considering the huge difference between 16 and 21st century... I mean...OK I don't know what kind of an analogy is required. How many people they thought have died in the WWII and then 50 years later? I don't mean the exact numbers, I mean the difference.

Just the government corruption alone...
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 08:42:03 AM by drunkenshoe »
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Offline SGOS

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2021, 03:36:42 AM »
I remember a discussion I had about a mutual friend that recently died.  The person I was talking to asked, "What did he die of?"  Neither one of us knew exactly what it was, and I somewhat glibly replied, "Old age I guess."  After all, he was 80+ years old.  It was quickly pointed out that every death has a cause that is more specific than just "old age."  Every death involves a failure of some organ or system.  Granted in "old age" there are a lot more organs ready to fail than in a 20 year old, which is why old people seem to die so often, I guess.  So is it important whether the cause is a failed heart, diseased liver, or an infected lung?  I guess that's a personal perception, but during a pandemic medical experts seem to believe it's important to be more precise that just, "It could have been this or that."  And if one cares to take the time, the actual specific cause can be identified, which seems to be preferred over a simple shrug of the shoulders, and breezing by the actual cause. 

Offline Shiranu

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2021, 03:43:37 AM »
Quote
When a 40 year old dies from a heart attack, something tips over and he dies from a heart attack.

Right, but if he weighed 500 pounds, hadn't gone outside or off his ass in 5 years, smoked 10 packs a day... there is a lot of context left out by just saying, "He had a heart attack.".
Terrorism is when you do what we do but wear a different uniform than us.

Offline SGOS

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2021, 04:01:22 AM »
Right, but if he weighed 500 pounds, hadn't gone outside or off his ass in 5 years, smoked 10 packs a day... there is a lot of context left out by just saying, "He had a heart attack.".
But that's the thing about medical science, or any science; Attempts are made to include contexts.  That's how we know that obesity, smoking, and lack of exercise contributes to heart attacks.  Over the years, those contexts were observed and recorded until actual correlations could be identified.  Leaving the context out is what the tobacco "scientists' did to create the perception that smoking was not that harmful.

Offline Mermaid

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2021, 08:48:52 AM »
I'm prone to agree with Jason; while Covid might have tipped him over the edge, it's a bit of a stretch to say that Covid was the actual killer; unfortunately this is this case in a lot of Covid deaths and makes our numbers look far worse than they are.

And no, that doesn't mean I don't think the numbers aren't absolutely terrible or that I don't think people need to start using their brains and take steps to reduce the spread... but I do think it is intentionally being misreported at times to spark up fear for more media views and give the government an excuse to seize more powers that it will not willingly hand back.
If he died because he got covid, this is a covid death. He'd be alive today if Covid weren't a factor. It's not muddy. Just because someone has pre-existing conditions, that doesn't mean the virus didn't kill them.
If I have arthritis and got shot in the head because I was too slow (due to my arthritis) to run away from an assailant, my cause of death would be a gunshot wound. Contributing factors are not what actually caused my death. That's how it works in medicine, and that's how it works in reality. 

I don't understand the need to cast shadows on this concept.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 10:16:12 AM by Mermaid »
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities — all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2021, 09:10:23 AM »
Right, but if he weighed 500 pounds, hadn't gone outside or off his ass in 5 years, smoked 10 packs a day... there is a lot of context left out by just saying, "He had a heart attack.".

His cause of death is a heart attack. People without those traits have heart attacks. But I think this is not the corr4ect way to look at to something related to a pandemic.
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Offline Hydra009

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2021, 09:47:39 AM »
Right, but if he weighed 500 pounds, hadn't gone outside or off his ass in 5 years, smoked 10 packs a day... there is a lot of context left out by just saying, "He had a heart attack.".
And yet the heart attack is still the cause of death.

Offline SGOS

Re: Colin Powell Dies of Covid at 84
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2021, 10:05:23 AM »
That "Colin Powell had cancer and Parkinsons" is a deflection from the argument that Covid kills a lot of people, so why not just say, "Covid is not that big of a deal, because death kills way more."