Author Topic: Does Firing Someone for Being (X)-ist Actually Hold Up?  (Read 322 times)

Offline Shiranu

Does Firing Someone for Being (X)-ist Actually Hold Up?
« on: October 12, 2021, 08:31:18 PM »
Recently saw a story about a local man who was let go for some (very) racist things he said; stuff that did creep into the territory of not just being bigoted but being hateful & borderline violent. I 100% think he should be fired, however that made me start to think...

Should anyone be fired over offensive comments made that do not advocate for any criminal offense on the grounds that those things are simply offensive?


I think we can all agree racism is offensive and bad; but what is racist to one person might differ from another (key example; jokes involving race). If we agree the line is arbitrary, then that means that literally everyone has said something grievously offensive to someone at one point or another in their life.

So who gets to decide what that line is? The government is (should be, anyways) ruled out for a variety of obvious reasons, and corporations are not in the business of morality... just profit. So that leaves society and social organizations to dictate this. But this is a two-edged sword...



Let's take a real example; someone is fired for saying racist things because the owner morally opposed to them, so being morally opposed is the line drawn. It therefor should be acceptable to fire someone for being pro-choice, because they are publicly stating (in the eyes of an anti-abortionist) that they are in favor of murder. Is the moral opposition of the employer justification to fire the employee?

What about firing someone for belonging to a political party you find morally abhorrent, or to an organization such as BLM or a cult? Should you be fired for being pro-Israel or pro-Palestine? And what happens if society suddenly decides that something you believe is good is suddenly evil?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 08:41:32 PM by Shiranu »
Terrorism is when you do what we do but wear a different uniform than us.

Re: Does Firing Someone for Being (X)-ist Actually Hold Up?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2021, 09:01:05 PM »
A private employer is under no obligation to maintain the relationship. If there are bargaining agreements or the employer does government contracts there could be other requirements before firing someone. However, the employer can't discriminate against "protected groups" when hiring/firing or administering and to bring a case you would need some evidence.

Race – Civil Rights Act of 1964
Religion – Civil Rights Act of 1964
National origin – Civil Rights Act of 1964
Age (40 and over) – Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
Sex – Equal Pay Act of 1963 and Civil Rights Act of 1964
Sexual orientation and gender identity as of Bostock v. Clayton County – Civil Rights Act of 1964[3]
Pregnancy – Pregnancy Discrimination Act
Familial status – Civil Rights Act of 1968 Title VIII: Prohibits discrimination for having children, with an exception for senior housing. Also prohibits making a preference for those with children.
Disability status – Rehabilitation Act of 1973 and Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
Veteran status – Vietnam Era Veterans' Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 and Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act
Genetic information – Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act


Your political party is not protected from discrimination... but a stance on abortion one way or another is stickier because it could be tied into religion. Getting fired over race is protected.

Re: Does Firing Someone for Being (X)-ist Actually Hold Up?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2021, 09:45:11 PM »
You talking about that coach? I'll be honest, I saw a blip on the TV, which I seldom watch, but my wife was viewing. She saw more of it and commented, "Now that their team is losing, it's a good time to bring up his many years of bad behavior!".

Offline Shiranu

Re: Does Firing Someone for Being (X)-ist Actually Hold Up?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2021, 09:45:26 PM »
I feel like that goes to what I was saying; all of those groups are protected because society eventually said, "Huh, maybe discrimination based on unchosen attributes is wrong." (minus veterans, who are there because they worked for the guy who made the laws)... but that happened only after society spent a few centuries deciding it was no longer cool to do that, and it is not beyond the realm of reason to see society regress to a point where those protections could be repealed.

By having the law based on a subjective-to-the-crowd(s) morality it means that it can be taken away or, worse yet, if enough of an influential crowd decides they are offended by what you have to say, no matter how moral it was... you are left with no safeguards. Termination should be based upon the employee being a liability, not because you dislike them or their beliefs, and any termination brought into question should have to be proven based on the standard that it was purely business.
Terrorism is when you do what we do but wear a different uniform than us.

Offline Shiranu

Re: Does Firing Someone for Being (X)-ist Actually Hold Up?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2021, 09:48:05 PM »
You talking about that coach? I'll be honest, I saw a blip on the TV, which I seldom watch, but my wife was viewing. She saw more of it and commented, "Now that their team is losing, it's a good time to bring up his many years of bad behavior!".

I think I know which one you are talking about, the Raider's coach I think, but no this was one in one of the rural communities that said some really stupid things; nothing new there, happens at least every year and uh... coaches aren't always exactly the brightest tools in the kitchen.

Had one pull a knife on a student in high school then get pissed off at the school board for letting him go, but that's a whole nother story...
Terrorism is when you do what we do but wear a different uniform than us.

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: Does Firing Someone for Being (X)-ist Actually Hold Up?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2021, 01:45:47 AM »
I want to know why the government should be ruled out.
I mean yes, you live in america and politics there is fundamentally broken. But in essence, the idea of a government is supposed to be a democratic representation of the will of the people; the society. And they can propose and make laws of what can and can't be done in said society. So i think they do and always will have a part in this in a democratic country.
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Offline Shiranu

Re: Does Firing Someone for Being (X)-ist Actually Hold Up?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2021, 02:19:28 AM »
Quote
I want to know why the government should be ruled out.

1. The First Amendment is incredibly clear; "Congress shall make NO law...  abridging the freedom of speech...".
2. If the government is given the ability to arbitrarily choose what is or isn't prohibited speech, based on a system of subjective morality, then it is an inherently broke system that will be abused. Case in point... pretty much all of American history...
3. To touch on "democratic representation", the American government (and really nearly all governments, even the good ones) were never meant and never designed to represent the will of the people but rather the will of the wealthy aristocracy; even in progressive countries politicians are ultimately beholden to donors and aristocrats and the rule of law differs between one's socio-economic status. The idea of a state representing it's people is ultimately a utopian one, in reality the state represents the wealthy and the influential, and then everyone else is a second-rate citizen; sometimes that is still a really damn good life, more often than not it's not.

But without even getting into the philosophical aspect of what a government is or isn't representing, rule #1 immediately rules out the American government, and for all the things the Founding Fathers got wrong... I think that one is one of their absolute best pieces of work and it's a massive shame America has never actually followed it.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 02:28:07 AM by Shiranu »
Terrorism is when you do what we do but wear a different uniform than us.

Re: Does Firing Someone for Being (X)-ist Actually Hold Up?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2021, 08:22:57 AM »
I hold the old-fashioned opinion that there should be a boundary between people's work life and personal life, that whether or not someone should be fired should be based on job performance. I prefer that people leave their politics and religion at home. If someone is disrespectful to a coworker or customer, for whatever reason, it needs to be addressed in the context of doing a job effectively. This is not the trend though. People want companies and their employees to take a stand on social issues unrelated to their products. The line between personal life and professional life is increasingly blurred and I see that as stifling rather than liberating. I don't like that I can be fired for something I post on this forum.