Author Topic: Post Pandemic Anti-Religious Backlash?  (Read 504 times)

Offline SGOS

Re: Post Pandemic Anti-Religious Backlash?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2021, 04:18:22 AM »
All of that is technically true, but in reality, they tend to not go hand in hand for quite a few very compelling reasons.  For starters, mutually exclusive methodologies and mindsets.
In order for science to be science, it needs to ignore Papal authority, hearsay, and unsupported conclusions, the cornerstones of religious authority.  Instead it relies on pragmatic investigation, and at least tries to avoid emotionally motivated conclusions.  As a result, it must proceed without religious claims and operate independently of religion.

Science asks little of religion, other than to just stay out of the way.  This creates incompatibility, because religion needs to control everything.  It attacks anything that disagrees with its dogma with venom that far outstrips disagreements between peers in the scientific community, where disagreements are much more orderly, but eventually settled as more evidence comes in.  These kinds of differences between science and religion, can take hundreds and thousands of years to settle, because religion does not understand what evidence is, while science cannot exist without it.

Compatibility can only occur by allowing independence in the face of petty disagreement.  Which half of this debate is the least likely to allow that?

Re: Post Pandemic Anti-Religious Backlash?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2021, 08:04:37 AM »
I admit I do not have much empathy for a religious conservative. Am I an example of an over-educated elitist atheist liberal that spurs such hate from these people? That causes them to support a Trump? I think I am, even if I am not really far to the left, IMHO.

Perhaps stuck-up assholes like me should try harder to relate. Is that even possible without me seeming condescending? Fuckin A; we have 5 college degrees between the two of us and have travelled the globe. How do I discuss politics and pandemic responsibility with a passionate emotional 'facebook expert; who is not a reader or traveler, doesn't know basic geography, science or history and loves jesus? They don't get my sarcastic wit and misinterpret much I say. Do I downshift into 1st gear? Maybe if liberals just stop with the over-the-top correctness, moralization of tiny issues and cancel culture?

I don't think the issue springs from raw IQ. It is life experience.

Re: Post Pandemic Anti-Religious Backlash?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2021, 08:21:56 AM »
I admit I do not have much empathy for a religious conservative. Am I an example of an over-educated elitist atheist liberal that spurs such hate from these people? That causes them to support a Trump? I think I am, even if I am not really far to the left, IMHO.


Working with people who do not share your values need not come from a place of empathy. The question is: What approach is going to produce the desired result? How should arguments be framed to get people to approve funding or take a vaccine? For example, if pandemic restrictions and vaccinations had been framed more as a patriotic duty to defeat this virus from China more religious conservatives would have been onboard.

Offline SGOS

Re: Post Pandemic Anti-Religious Backlash?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2021, 08:34:07 AM »
I have two friends who are creationists.  I never thought such a friendship was possible.  I can't even say we respect each other's beliefs.  We just don't discuss evolution or religion.  Why do I bother?  Well, they have other redeeming qualities, and they actually act in a way that a real Jesus would preach.  They are not typical of most Christians at all.

And there is the problem. Too many Christians want to be in your face about their bullshit.  As some well known atheist pointed out (can't remember which one), "We did not start this war."  And when religionists start dictating how others should be, which includes things like minorities needing to know their place, well that calls for comment, and they hate those comments because they defy something they cherry picked from the Bible that suits their own "Christian" selfishness.

Offline SGOS

Re: Post Pandemic Anti-Religious Backlash?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2021, 08:43:00 AM »
For example, if pandemic restrictions and vaccinations had been framed more as a patriotic duty to defeat this virus from China more religious conservatives would have been onboard.
I don't think atheists, or politicians for that matter talked about patriotic duty, and Trump's response to mandates in my state, I remember clearly;  He ordered reporters to remove masks and other voters to "Free Viriginia!"

I also think many others feel as I do.  Doing what I can to avoid spreading the virus is part of my patriotic duty.  Those that do not just add to the chaos.

Re: Post Pandemic Anti-Religious Backlash?
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2021, 07:39:49 AM »
From the Wall Street Journal:

More Americans Left Religion During the Pandemic

The survey shows the percentage of Americans with no religious affiliation rose to 29% from 16% in 2007, while Christians declined to 63% from 65% in 2019 and 78% in 2007.

Offline SGOS

Re: Post Pandemic Anti-Religious Backlash?
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2021, 08:31:50 AM »
I would have thought religious affiliation would have risen as people flocked to God for protection.  Having said that, my very good fundamentalist friends stopped going to their church because the minister encouraged the members to not wear masks while they were in church.  They are still religious of course, but stopped attending church.

Offline Hydra009

Re: Post Pandemic Anti-Religious Backlash?
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2021, 11:49:11 PM »
During the pandemic, church services were/are probably the biggest risk outside of frenching ICU patients.  Cheek by jowl with people most likely to engage in risky behaviors, least likely to protect themselves or anyone, and least likely to seek appropriate care when the predictable consequence occurs.  No thanks.

If anything, it shows that these people have a lesser sense of morality/responsibility than the average person, despite claiming the opposite.  The bedrock of society revealed to be its bedbugs.  I can see that leaving a bit of an impression.

Offline SGOS

Re: Post Pandemic Anti-Religious Backlash?
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2021, 05:50:42 AM »
During the pandemic, church services were/are probably the biggest risk outside of frenching ICU patients. 
The risk is high indeed, at least in my area.  It always struck me as odd that people would demonstrate the depth of their faith to others by risking Covid.  It's like a less risky demonstration than snake handling, which is an equally stupid religious tradition.  Of course there are other explanations for this behavior too, but they are all irresponsible and stupid.