Author Topic: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven  (Read 293 times)

It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« on: August 14, 2021, 08:14:04 PM »
From this time onward i ll apply this rule to anything i read, hear etc. irrespective of wherever i read from.

This is the inquisive mindset which wont lie to you.

Try it.

Re: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2021, 08:24:21 PM »
In college I sort of learned that.  As a history major, I learned from constructing research papers, there is almost always more than one way to look at some facet of history.  Always.  That is now more true than ever.  I don't take any piece of 'news' at its face value.  I try to find out what isn't being said or what is being lied about.  That is good advice, Soldier.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2021, 08:38:46 PM »
Of course everybody on some occasions may have to lie, but if it has become a characteristic trait sticking to your personality, it is a mental illness.

This is true when it occurs in personal relations.

But when it comes to politics or governing the people in higher offices, I think it has become a standard.

Re: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2021, 09:12:05 PM »
Does a lie imply mal intent? I think people are often just plain wrong. Especially the full-of-shit know-it-all types. There is never a shortage of people who just talk and talk and never listen. Ever get cornered by a talkative bullshitter at a party, LOL? I just say "excuse me, but I have to go pull out my fingernails with some pliers."

Re: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2021, 09:27:19 PM »
I do think a lie implies mal intent.  trumps lies are like that--all mal intent with a good mix of chaos.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2021, 09:29:44 PM »
Does a lie imply mal intent? I think people are often just plain wrong. Especially the full-of-shit know-it-all types. There is never a shortage of people who just talk and talk and never listen. Ever get cornered by a talkative bullshitter at a party, LOL? I just say "excuse me, but I have to go pull out my fingernails with some pliers."

You are right regarding interpersonal relations.

I think it is also true when it comes for example to the Christian missionaries.
The missionary truly believes in his or her cause but all in all he is a liar, no malintent here because he or she frankly and honestly wants to free your soul : )

What is on my mind on opening the thread is, I really am sick and tired of reading shit on the -serious- media, which their writers are competent liars, that is, they are actually educated propagandist, who are paid for lying.

It is the question of shaping or enginnering the minds; I am more interested in this aspect of lying.






Re: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2021, 06:56:51 AM »
The proper stance is neutrality, not denial.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2021, 07:37:19 AM »
To me a lie implies mal intent, but mal intent is very hard to differentiate from ignorance.  Calling something a lie or a person a liar, puts us on an uneasy footing. Did Trump really lie about winning the election?  It's hard to prove, because Trump is a psychological mess.  I suspect much of the chaos he created was the result of the chaos in his own head.

Re: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2021, 07:55:50 AM »
Don't polarize an argument, just ask for evidence, then examine the evidence and decide which side you should support. Decide ONLY after you've had enough information to make an intelligent choice.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline aitm

Re: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2021, 09:14:20 AM »
If and when one has the time or luxury to examine said “lies”, it is also contingent upon reacting to the unknown in uncertain circumstances. One cannot ascertain truth in many circumstances, when said circumstances need immediate reaction. Not all lies imply intent, many are used to hasten positive reactions that serve the best interest of all. As Daddy used to say, if they are all running past you, don’t argue the reason…never be the last one running.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Online Hydra009

Re: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2021, 10:27:01 AM »
It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
Given your previous stances, this seems like a prudent decision.  Once bitten, twice shy.

However, it's a bit of an over-correction.  Obviously, all sources of information are not equally likely to lie.  What you really to do is to figure out which sources of information can reliably deliver accurate information and which sources cannot.  This process takes a lot of time to establish and has to be readjusted on occasion.

Then, later on, when you stumble on some news story that really stokes your interest, first ask yourself if any of this stuff seems plausible, can be corroborated, etc before sharing it or affirming that it's definitely true.  "People say that..." is not a good place to start.

Re: It ıs a lie unless otherwise has been proven
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2021, 11:37:10 AM »
"It is far better to stay silent and let people think you a fool than to open thy mouth and remove all doubt."
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers