Author Topic: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?  (Read 1160 times)

Offline SGOS

Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« on: July 10, 2021, 08:07:01 AM »
I will go, but I'm not in a rush.  Audience reviews are good, but the one star reviews are all in agreement about why the film fails.  The good reviews just seem like Marvel fan boys hyping their own predetermined enthusiasm.  At one time, I thought Marvel was going to save the movie industry, because they found a connection to viewers that Hollywood had lost.  I still think that was true, but toward the end, Marvel seemed to missing it's mark.  They were still the most important thing happening in the film industry, but feeding on momentum, rather than creativity.  Buy, yeah, I'm going, because... because... why?  Because it's Marvel, I guess.

Online Hydra009

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2021, 08:30:58 AM »
Saw it last night.  So much kevlar and PVC.

While it wasn't a game-changer like Doctor Strange or Infinity War, it was a solid action flick and gave Black Widow some much-needed fleshing out.  This movie is a long time coming - it should've come out before Avengers, imho.

Also, some of the plot may be difficult to parse if you haven't seen Avengers Civil War or Endgame.  There's even a small part that tied into Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which surprised me.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 08:33:31 AM by Hydra009 »

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2021, 01:38:15 PM »
Bought it, watching to night at home.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2021, 01:44:27 PM »
I will go, but I'm not in a rush.  Audience reviews are good, but the one star reviews are all in agreement about why the film fails.  The good reviews just seem like Marvel fan boys hyping their own predetermined enthusiasm.  At one time, I thought Marvel was going to save the movie industry, because they found a connection to viewers that Hollywood had lost.  I still think that was true, but toward the end, Marvel seemed to missing it's mark.  They were still the most important thing happening in the film industry, but feeding on momentum, rather than creativity.  Buy, yeah, I'm going, because... because... why?  Because it's Marvel, I guess.

Don't forget what the standard of super hero movies was before the MCU. I mean, it's not that there weren't any good super hero movies before, but...they weren't as good, and they were highly inconsistent in quality. If a Black Widow movie came out in the mid-2000's, it would have been a boring, low budget movie no one believed would work. Even now, while Marvel movies have set a new standard, we still get movies like...

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Yuck.

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

The MCU was also the first to implement a huge expanding movie universe, built up for over a decade, with different super hero characters each getting their own movies before coming together at the end of a wave. Many have since attempted to do the same, and have failed. Usually because they lack the patience to do it properly. Looking at you, DC!

The problem now, though is not with the quality of super hero movies, but with the concentration of them. Jesus Christ. Marvel releases enough of their own projects to keep one satisfied, but now everybody wants a piece of that pie. Movies with original concepts and stories barely get any attention, while movies relying on nostalgia to bait in viewers rake in tons of money. So it's kind of a double edged sword. Marvel has started a trend. One which doesn't appear to be dying anytime soon.

But no. I haven't seen Black Widow yet. Before Covid, I used to go with friends. Now I'd probably end up going by myself, and that just doesn't feel the same. Maybe I can coordinate my schedule with my brother, but my sister and brother-in-law are always busy. I've heard the movie is good, but the timing of it seems odd. If you've seen End Game, you know why I say that. I've never really found her to be the most interesting of characters, so the idea of a movie centered around her never excited me. Apparently, the people in charge of the MCU felt the same way, since she was one of the two members of the original Avengers lineup to not get her own movie before. Well, three if you count The Hulk, since they basically replaced him, and the Hulk movie doesn't seem relevant to any other movie, so its canonicity is questionable. But yeah. I'm mixed on this. I'll see it at some point, but I'm not in a hurry to run and see it.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline SGOS

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2021, 01:55:44 PM »
Speaking of BM Vs Super Man, you could have used Suicide Squad as an example.

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2021, 04:05:17 PM »
Speaking of BM Vs Super Man, you could have used Suicide Squad as an example.

Yeah, DC movies are still highly inconsistent. I enjoyed Shazam and The Joker, but you know what those two movies have in common? They rip off older movies that already worked. lol
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline SGOS

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2021, 06:03:45 PM »
Yeah, DC movies are still highly inconsistent. I enjoyed Shazam and The Joker, but you know what those two movies have in common? They rip off older movies that already worked. lol
They ARE inconsistent.  Joker was one of the most fascinating films of last year.  Maybe the most fascinating, including all of what Marvel did, but totally out of character for DC to put out such a brilliant piece of work.  Of course, this is just opinion.  What I liked about it was that Shazam was that DC wasn't trying so hard to be taken seriously.  It was just screwy fun.

Online Hydra009

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2021, 11:25:23 PM »
After seeing this movie, I am legitimately confused about the proper way to say Budapest.  Boo-dah-PEST or Boo-dah-peSCHT ??
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 11:50:51 PM by Hydra009 »

Online Hydra009

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2021, 11:48:49 PM »
Spoilers, obviously:


Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2021, 07:52:33 AM »
After seeing this movie, I am legitimately confused about the proper way to say Budapest.  Boo-dah-PEST or Boo-dah-peSCHT ??
The city on one bank is Buda. The other is Pesh. So it depends on how you pronounce "PESH".
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2021, 08:18:47 AM »
Considering the fact that Black Widow died, her origin story seems more like an afterthought.  Even years ago, there were a whole bunch of characters that just appeared out of nowhere when the Avengers came along.  I remember being bothered by these unannounced members of the team, and they all felt like secondary characters after that.  How about Hawkeye?  Doesn't he need an origin story?  Probably not.  Like Black Widow, he was not that interesting of a character either, but some back story would have helped a lot.  The Red Witch was the one exception to the format for me.  I always thought she could have been used more, because her powers were forces to be reckoned with and unique.  While she was not given an origin story, at least her origins were explained back during Captain America, so in my psyche, I could accept her presence easier.

Then along comes Captain Marvel with a beautiful origin story, and sets a new bar for super powers, but she's hardly seen again, except that in the last 10 minutes of Infinity Wars she appears out of nowhere, and turns the tide of the battle.  She actually replaced Dr. Strange as the most interesting character in my mind, and then she's gone again.  OK, I understand she may be part of Phase 2, but Brie Larson won't be there to play the part (so I've heard, but PLEASE tell me I'm wrong), and I think she was critical to the development of that character.

Online Hydra009

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2021, 09:12:10 AM »
How about Hawkeye?  Doesn't he need an origin story?  Probably not.
On his own?  No.  His story in tandem with another hero?  Yes.  #HawkeyeMovie

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Then along comes Captain Marvel with a beautiful origin story, and sets a new bar for super powers, but she's hardly seen again, except that in the last 10 minutes of Infinity Wars she appears out of nowhere, and turns the tide of the battle.
Yeah, that was kinda bad.  I think it's because the writers made the mistake of making her too powerful, so they couldn't use her in other stories because she could almost effortlessly solve those conflicts.  So they could only cram her in Endgame along with almost every other character in the MCU.

Quote
She actually replaced Dr. Strange as the most interesting character in my mind, and then she's gone again.
Eh...I don't think it was interest in her exactly, but in the Kree/Skrull cosmic side of Marvel finally getting fleshed out.  There are some hella interesting characters and conflicts that got rolling because of the Captain Marvel movie, esp Secret Invasion.

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2021, 09:42:52 AM »
"You and I remember Budapest very differently." So he was with her then.

AND, ELSEWHERE

"The Marvels is an upcoming American superhero film based on Marvel Comics featuring the characters Carol Danvers / Captain Marvel, Monica Rambeau, and Kamala Khan / Ms. Marvel. Wikipedia
Release date: November 11, 2022 (USA)
Director: Nia DaCosta
Screenplay: Megan McDonnell
Production companies: Marvel Studios"
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2021, 12:06:09 PM »
I think it's because the writers made the mistake of making her too powerful, so they couldn't use her in other stories because she could almost effortlessly solve those conflicts.
I wondered about his before, but hadn't thought it all the way through.  There would have been zero tension in Infinity Wars if she was there from the start.  The only purpose of the other characters was only to figure out time travel and "get the band back together," a fun plot line to be sure, but even that would have been useless without Captain Marvel to avoid just another replay of End Game.

However, one of the most exciting things for me in that last movie was to see her brief appearance at the beginning where she doesn't even flinch with Thor's attempt to intimidate her, thereby winning him over.  But then I almost forgot about her until the end where it looked like the Avengers were going to suffer one more humiliating defeat, and she appears just in the nick of time smashing space ships and artillery before she puts an end to the nonsense on the ground.  When she appeared at the end, I almost felt like I got a call from the doctor telling me I didn't have cancer.  OK, slight exaggeration, but you get the point.

Re: Anyone See Black Widow Yet?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2021, 05:58:57 AM »
One-upping other superheroes does have the inevitable outcome of being god or being second rate.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers