Author Topic: The Problem of Information  (Read 1224 times)

Offline Paolo

The Problem of Information
« on: April 26, 2021, 02:07:55 AM »
Just something that popped up in my head right now. Has anybody here who has studied creationism in any depth ever heard of the ''information problem''? What do you think about this matter?
Oh noes...I think I’m dead....

Online drunkenshoe

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2021, 04:21:33 AM »
What does 'studying creationsimin in depth' mean? What does 'the information problem' mean in this context?

Creationsim is the belief that the universe and everything in it exists as a result of some divine acts commited by some creator. And that the creator informed people about his acts.

The 'information problem' with cretaionsim is that it relies on lack of information and knowledge because they are the problems; the threat to the existence of creationism as belief in the first place. Hence the invention of 'intelligent design'. If you cannot sell the product with the old marketing routine, you upgrade it.

In a nutshell: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/

"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2021, 09:38:02 AM »
To consider "creationism" in the light of today's research and evidence is just ignorant. I have yet to know a creationist who comes close to understanding (or being able to explain) the sciences of evolution. Answers in Genesis church staff mimic scientists by pretending to publish "research" that is summarily shredded by amateurs because professional evolutionary scientists are busy making vaccines and stuff.

However there is research into the broken thoughts that creationists suffer from.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0118314

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2021, 10:15:28 AM »
I assume the "problem of information" being talked about here is the problem Creationists say we have if we pretend that DNA is just like computer code in every way. But it's not like computer code. At all. So there is no problem. DNA "adding or subtracting information" (ie DNA getting longer or shorter) happens all the time. It's nothing special.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2021, 10:53:21 AM »
Lets take a field trip to Ken Ham's bonehead ark encounter/creation museum. I always wanted to see stuffed dinosaurs in cages inside a boat shaped building. Giddyup



Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2021, 02:16:56 PM »
I havn't studied creationism.
It's not really a subject you can truly study.
That's like saying you study the tale of Hansel and grettel.
It's an endearing story. You could probably trace it's roots. But once you trace it back far enough you'll either find the first person who told it or far more likely end up in a vague time-period from whence it originated. Which is fine, but at that point you know all there is to know about the subject.
And guess what, knowing all that still doesn't make the story itself true.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2021, 05:02:28 PM »
If I was going to believe in a supernatural theory of the origin of the universe I wouldn't choose Christian creationism. I'd probably go with the universe as a simulation.

Offline aitm

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2021, 06:11:48 PM »
I consider “Bat shit-crazy” not just the person who claims that something has existed forever.....and before anything was created there was nothing....and he knew everything about nothing that had not been created yet, with stuff that did not exist as he had not created it yet, nor did it even exist in his mind yet, but he knows exactly what doesn’t exist can do once existing should he make it exist and not a moment too soon so as to get the best return for his “bang”......but also the person who believes the person wat comes up with bat shit crazy,
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline SGOS

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2021, 09:38:12 PM »
I googed "the problem of information," and it refers to so many areas.  If you read it all you'd be reading about business applications, politics, vaccine research, and God knows what else, but I did find this, and I think this is what Paolo thinks the problem of information is all about.  He's obsessed with crazy shit and thinks we need to step back and reconsider more crazy shit.  He will frame it as "for our own good," but really he just likes crazy shit.  I didn't bother reading it.  I glanced but it seems to be a summary of previously failed creationist arguments.  There's nothing new in it.  We've all studied this nonsense before way too many times.

https://www.trueorigin.org/dawkinfo.php
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 09:40:23 PM by SGOS »

Offline Hydra009

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2021, 10:45:16 PM »
Just something that popped up in my head right now. Has anybody here who has studied creationism in any depth ever heard of the ''information problem''? What do you think about this matter?
It has depth?  Anyway, this is one of those refuted-a-thousand-times-type arguments which can be found here.  That way, no one has to waste time on it ever again.

Offline Hydra009

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2021, 10:52:09 PM »
Lets take a field trip to Ken Ham's bonehead ark encounter/creation museum. I always wanted to see stuffed dinosaurs in cages inside a boat shaped building. Giddyup

I've seen video of that place.  It's like the Star Trek experience except looking backwards and down.  It's actually a kinda sad monument to ignorance and vanity.


Online Shiranu

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2021, 11:27:58 PM »
Never heard of it (went to a creationist school), and google doesn't bring anything up on it.... so, no, haven't heard of it and cant say im too interested in it.
“The great appear great to us only because we are on our knees. LET US ARISE!” - "The Rebel", Texas' Premier Socialist Newspaper, 1892

Offline Hydra009

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2021, 11:44:34 PM »
Never heard of it (went to a creationist school), and google doesn't bring anything up on it.... so, no, haven't heard of it and cant say im too interested in it.
1) Assume that DNA letters are like machine code
2) Assume that any altering of this "code" is bad ("bad" in this context is intentionally poorly defined, and you're mostly supposed to just imply this part)
C) Evilution is a lie

Online Shiranu

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2021, 11:59:37 PM »
1) Assume that DNA letters are like machine code
2) Assume that any altering of this "code" is bad ("bad" in this context is intentionally poorly defined, and you're mostly supposed to just imply this part)
C) Evilution is a lie

162 years since Darwin published "The Origin of Species", and that's the argument that is suppose to finally win the fight?

Oof.
“The great appear great to us only because we are on our knees. LET US ARISE!” - "The Rebel", Texas' Premier Socialist Newspaper, 1892

Offline Hydra009

Re: The Problem of Information
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2021, 12:19:08 AM »
162 years since Darwin published "The Origin of Species", and that's the argument that is suppose to finally win the fight?
It's either that or the "half a wing" thing or claiming that the Global Flood is real because lots of people have flood stories in their mythologies.  Truly compelling stuff.

But yeah, that well of knowledge isn't deep enough to drown a rat.