Author Topic: Should I, or shouldn’t I?  (Read 436 times)

Online aitm

Should I, or shouldn’t I?
« on: April 18, 2021, 08:57:29 AM »
My niece has a successful micro blading business, one in Clearwater, the other in Miami. Her husband, a successful home inspection for high end mansions along the beaches of Clearwater.

She, after a night of fun with some girlfriends at an escape room, posted on social media a picture of the gals after they made it out. She very clearly shows a white power hand sign. Open and obvious. Normally, I would bring a smack down on her, and her business and by association, albeit , but unlikely misplaced, against her hubby as well.

It pisses me off, not so much knowing she is most likely racist, as that doesn’t surprise me anymore. But that I am “bound” by a great relation with my brother and his wife, and the gal in question as well as her brother.

At what cost to the family dynamic would it incite should I call her out? And should I? And to me, why shouldn’t I call out goddamn racists just because it’s family? No doubt her apology would be effusive, but we all know apologies are for when you get caught, not for being guilty.

And of course, the very real possibility it would, and should, perhaps destroy both businesses.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Should I, or shouldn’t I?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2021, 09:41:23 AM »
My niece has a successful micro blading business, one in Clearwater, the other in Miami. Her husband, a successful home inspection for high end mansions along the beaches of Clearwater.

She, after a night of fun with some girlfriends at an escape room, posted on social media a picture of the gals after they made it out. She very clearly shows a white power hand sign. Open and obvious. Normally, I would bring a smack down on her, and her business and by association, albeit , but unlikely misplaced, against her hubby as well.

It pisses me off, not so much knowing she is most likely racist, as that doesn’t surprise me anymore. But that I am “bound” by a great relation with my brother and his wife, and the gal in question as well as her brother.

At what cost to the family dynamic would it incite should I call her out? And should I? And to me, why shouldn’t I call out goddamn racists just because it’s family? No doubt her apology would be effusive, but we all know apologies are for when you get caught, not for being guilty.

And of course, the very real possibility it would, and should, perhaps destroy both businesses.
Under antagonism these folks simply seem to double down in their ideology, sometimes after the public apology if they sense a financial cost coming their way. They already feel as if they are under attack for some reason. Maybe a long term, light-handed education strategy is in order.

Mimicking the "Gasparilla" boat parade, yesterday 100s of boats circled Tampa Bay in a "Trumparilla" festival yesterday. The ignorance knows no bounds.



Offline SGOS

Re: Should I, or shouldn’t I?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2021, 01:06:33 PM »
While I was out of touch with a cousin for 50 years we did eventually locate each other and because we were family we got together quite often even though we lived 1000 miles apart.  If he was still alive, he would have been cheering the insurrectionists at the Capitol.  He was a racist and hated anyone who wasn't lily white. To make matters worse, one of his daughters married a black man.  He finally forgave his daughter, but she had to get cancer for that to happen.  The other daughter said to him, "It's too bad it took something like this to get the family back together."  He forgave his daughter, but never forgave her husband (for being black).

The way we dealt with our differences was never talking about them, and when I was around, he kind of went light on the racism (as well homosexuality, as you may have guessed was another of his great concerns - can you say "bigot?"). 

Blood may be thicker that water, but sometimes it's still hard to drink the stuff.

Re: Should I, or shouldn’t I?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2021, 06:10:51 PM »
Sort of related comment.  "Blood is thicker than water"............... In my view, bullshit!  Family is coincidence in which you have absolutely no control; the only control you have is to continue the relationship or not.  I have a brother who was/is a trumpie.  I cannot and will not forgive that.  And his wife is a christian (I guess he is too).  Double whammy.  He is dead to me now, as is his wife, and there is not a whisper of a chance of changing that status.  I can't choose my family--I can choose my friends.  I used to have 5 brothers, now I have 4.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: Should I, or shouldn’t I?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2021, 08:11:55 PM »
My niece has a successful micro blading business, one in Clearwater, the other in Miami. Her husband, a successful home inspection for high end mansions along the beaches of Clearwater.

She, after a night of fun with some girlfriends at an escape room, posted on social media a picture of the gals after they made it out. She very clearly shows a white power hand sign. Open and obvious. Normally, I would bring a smack down on her, and her business and by association, albeit , but unlikely misplaced, against her hubby as well.

It pisses me off, not so much knowing she is most likely racist, as that doesn’t surprise me anymore. But that I am “bound” by a great relation with my brother and his wife, and the gal in question as well as her brother.

At what cost to the family dynamic would it incite should I call her out? And should I? And to me, why shouldn’t I call out goddamn racists just because it’s family? No doubt her apology would be effusive, but we all know apologies are for when you get caught, not for being guilty.

And of course, the very real possibility it would, and should, perhaps destroy both businesses.

You can call her out and explain that hand sign is racist and offends you without announcing to everyone that what she did is wrong. Though of course she can be signing if it were the sign "OK", which was  a sign before the KKK made into a sign. Then again I don't know enough about your relatives to begin with.

Online aitm

Re: Should I, or shouldn’t I?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2021, 09:02:42 PM »
She has informed me just now that it is a “circle game” where one makes the okay sign below the waist and if someone looks at it, they get a punch in the shoulder......I responded, “ okay. Good luck with that.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Should I, or shouldn’t I?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2021, 09:23:44 PM »
OMG! I haven't thought of that game since I was a teenager. I had no idea people still played that.

Perhaps she isn't a white supremacist.

Re: Should I, or shouldn’t I?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2021, 10:37:37 PM »
She has informed me just now that it is a “circle game” where one makes the okay sign below the waist and if someone looks at it, they get a punch in the shoulder......I responded, “ okay. Good luck with that.

I don't even know what a white power sign looks like, but I know of that game. They played it in Malcolm in the Middle. A coworker does it too, but doesn't seem to understand the rules, just putting the circle at eye level. Doesnt punch anyone in the arm, at least.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Online aitm

Re: Should I, or shouldn’t I?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2021, 03:49:27 PM »
I’ll take her word at face value. But....how many 45 year old women play a punching game?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Should I, or shouldn’t I?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2021, 03:30:12 AM »
OK. I'm confused. Is this really a thing? When I look up 'white power hand sign' on the net, the old 'OK' sign shows up. But there is this pic where the middle, ring and little fingers are full straight tensed up and a W drawn on them along with a P drawn on the circler part. It looks a bit different than the usual relaxed reflexive 'OK'. But probably if not suggested, I wouldn't see the difference. Again, if not drawn and suggested, W and P looks ridiculous...

I've known this sign as 'OK' all my life. I know that divers use it because thumbs up means 'going up' as in to surface down there and well, signs are pretty important underwater where you can't communicate directly. And the circle game is a silly game played in high school as far as I understand. We had the same stuff in a different way. A lot of people went around with bruised arms and shoulders in high school. Also it looks  like in a circle game, the sign doesn't look like what's suggested at all.

Do people really use this sign knowingly to express some ideology? Now, hand signs change according to cultures dramatically. That particular sign could get you in trouble in lots of places if somebody takes it as sexual but that's actually not the same one, the circle part is up and visible only while the rest of the fingers are closed.

But in domestic terms in American culture, for a sign that has been used for a common 'OK' since forever, how does it get hijacked and go on to mean something else?

This silly circle game vid is made in 2016. There is no politicial comment under the vid and the black guy is making the sign.





"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Should I, or shouldn’t I?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2021, 03:33:32 AM »
aitm... I'm guessing it is not just a hand sign issue alone with racism because you say you are pissed off. If I was in your place, I would talk to my brother openly about it first. Or the hubby? Considering everybody is close and in contact. I mean I would try to get a big picture about her real attitudes. Is it just a silly game played when drunk or what? When you are drunk, you don't feel like 45.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 03:39:23 AM by drunkenshoe »
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari