Author Topic: Levels of Consciousness  (Read 445 times)

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2021, 05:27:48 AM »
It’s certainly easy to sit in your room with a hit of lsd bouncing around your brain, smelling incense, looking a the fan go round and round as if my magic, staring at a picture of the cosmos, imagining you are one with it, feeling love and dissipating hate and fear, and feeling the energy of the cosmos vibrating in your loins. But, at some time, you have to leave the room, rejoin the real world, go to work, if you even have a job, deal with people...but please share your idyllic thoughts with them all day, constantly remind them of their anger and hatred, preach love all day....but by all means...send us the video...LOL. 🤣

Hahahaha, I love your depiction.

That was what I believed after I had that experience 10 years ago. "Nice to get a glimpse of heaven, but I do need to pay the bills!" In fact, I went to university to study neuroscience to try to figure out how such a small molecule created such a powerful experience. A mildly interesting pursuit that led nowhere.

I didn't SEE at the time that even though I left the LSD experience, I was still experiencing thought. I thought I went back to "reality", when in reality I went back to my thoughts.

I was still living inside the illusion created by my own mind. But I couldn't SEE it.

I do work for a living, by way. I'm a web designer. I used to be an insecure, angry web designer. Now I'm a happy, insightful, creative web designer.

What changed?

The only thing that changed was that I had a moment oF SEEING, where I saw was that my experience was coming to me via thought. That life is an inside experience of thought, projected outward, appearing as an outside reality. Life does not come at you from the outside. It is generated from the inside, and through the power of MIND, appears to us as an outside experience.

If you can SEE that your feelings of negativity, anger, hatred, frustration are all merely a response to thought passing through the mind, not a response to anything happening in the world, then you will have the key to a happy, healthy, and beautiful life.

This is ONE of THREE key Principles to all psychological wellbeing. Understand the power of THOUGHT. Understand that you are living in THOUGHT. And you will begin to see from new heights.

If you understood for even a moment what a state of negativity does to the body physiologically, you wouldn't spend another minute in it.

But because you believe that things outside of your mind are bothering you, you feel that you have no choice in the matter. This is what creates anger. You are trying to fix the world to fix your anger to find peace, but you don't see that THOUGHT is creating your anger, not the world. THOUGHT can only obscure the peace that lies untouched underneath.

MIND is SPIRIT (SPIRIT simply meaning before the creation of form, not incense and crystals), while the BRAIN is physical (after the creation of form). You are the formless energy of thought, or MIND, of CONSCIOUSNESS, which has TRICKED itself into believing your identity lies inside the physical. You are an eternal being momentarily manifest as a body with a personality.

This cannot be understood intellectually, believing or disbelieving does not make a difference. It has to be SEEN from higher levels of consciousness. And in order to SEE from higher levels of consciousness, you have to wake up out of the illusion of thought.

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2021, 05:37:02 AM »
Yeah, right? there is no balance, no dark side, no ying and yang. Just happy, happy, happy !!!

Well I embrace the darkness, I revel in it. I own the pain and rejoice in how life ends and thus has worth. The creatures that consume each other in a deadly dance all day and all night, the bacteria that infects the wound, even the mindless sheep (nuff said) are all part of this shit show. I love it all. You SEE.

Sorry, but not everybody can be a half wit.


You believe you have no choice and so you try to make suffering palatable. Don't try to love your suffering. It does not serve you. "Embrace the suck" - that's what they used to tell me in the military. I fully subscribed to the notion that in order to achieve happiness, you must go through suffering. It is an error in thought. It is a justification for the pain we experience when we lack true understanding of the MIND.

Every day you're haunted by fear. Fear of sickness, fear of death, insecurity, loneliness. This need not be. You were not designed to live in fear.

Though through the freedom of thought, you have the power to see creation in the light you choose. How you choose to see creation, via the power of thought, determines how it appears to you.

You are innocent because you do not understand the mind. You innocently misuse your freedom of thought to create pain, suffering, and fear in you. You are not aware you create fear in yourself, and so you project it outside, and blame the world. The world causes nothing. It is an effect. MIND is the cause. THOUGHT is the cause. EXPERIENCE is the effect. And the world is within EXPERIENCE.

Every time you feel your peace disturbed, look no further than THOUGHT and you will see what is disturbing it.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2021, 05:55:37 AM »
LSD is a very potent hallucinogen. Even in very small doses it can alter adult human brain profoundly. It creates changes in personality that can last years. You said you took 3 hits at 17. As your experince was a 'positive' one, you probably took more and still doing.

LSD creates a dissolution of ego, reduces fear and enhances emotional empathy. This is why people who use this drug and get good trips feel like they have just hugged the universe and everything in it, feeling a great loooove. And percieve everything from a very distorted point of view. They feel like they have become one with everything. It is one big hallucination. And a very powerful one.

A lot of people also get terrifying bad trips. If the state of mind created by this drug was really about opening a door to a high consciousness that exists, it would be the objective result. There wouldn't be bad trips. But that is not the case. Because it is not about some high level of consciousness or reality, it is about your altered mind.

There are good, solid reasons why evolution equipped us with these unpleasant feelings of fear, guilt, pain, anger and gave us that annoying thing called ego. Or rather that's how we have survived.

Long story short, you have brain damage. You live in a severe subjective reality. Ideally, you should seek help. But I don't think you can comprehend that right now.

A friendly advice. Your sense of fear is probably impaired, your self awareness is distorted and you have difficulty understanding boundaries. It is ok via internet, but you should stop pestering people about this stuff obssessively in real life. Otherwise, you'd put yourself in danger.
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2021, 07:12:51 AM »
LSD is a very potent hallucinogen. Even in very small doses it can alter adult human brain profoundly. It creates changes in personality that can last years. You said you took 3 hits at 17. As your experince was a 'positive' one, you probably took more and still doing.

LSD creates a dissolution of ego, reduces fear and enhances emotional empathy. This is why people who use this drug and get good trips feel like they have just hugged the universe and everything in it, feeling a great loooove. And percieve everything from a very distorted point of view. They feel like they have become one with everything. It is one big hallucination. And a very powerful one.

A lot of people also get terrifying bad trips. If the state of mind created by this drug was really about opening a door to a high consciousness that exists, it would be the objective result. There wouldn't be bad trips. But that is not the case. Because it is not about some high level of consciousness or reality, it is about your altered mind.

There are good, solid reasons why evolution equipped us with these unpleasant feelings of fear, guilt, pain, anger and gave us that annoying thing called ego. Or rather that's how we have survived.

Long story short, you have brain damage. You live in a severe subjective reality. Ideally, you should seek help. But I don't think you can comprehend that right now.

A friendly advice. Your sense of fear is probably impaired, your self awareness is distorted and you have difficulty understanding boundaries. It is ok via internet, but you should stop pestering people about this stuff obssessively in real life. Otherwise, you'd put yourself in danger.

You clearly have wisdom in you, and you have a grasp of the importance of fear and how it keeps us alive. Let me offer you another perspective that may make your life easier.

Absolutely LSD does NOT open the door to higher levels of consciousness, that's why I'm not recommending anyone to take it! LSD increases the intensity of the experience, the volume of it. It makes your thoughts feel even more real, and even more compelling.

THOUGHT determines the direction the trip takes. Just in the same way THOUGHT determines how you are feeling at any given moment. Yet we don't see that because the realness of thought lures us into it.

You can tell what level of consciousness you're at by how constricted you feel emotionally. It is a perfect design. It's a feedback system.

If you press your hand against a stove, there is an impulse that's created at that moment. A biological movement of energy moves through you and is attempting to open your hand. You can resist that impulse. You have freedom. But by exercising that freedom to resist that impulse, you experience pain.

This is similar to how the mind works. When we feel tight, constricted, frustrated, it is because we are using our freedom of thought to hold on to a pattern of thought, resisting the impulse of our inner wisdom, which is attempting to let go of the pattern of thought that is preventing you from tapping into your innate source of inner genius, love, and creativity.

This is practical.

It is not dissociative from the world. Let me give you an example, and you can SEE this play out in your own experience. Don't take my word for it (not that you would anyway).

The next time you face a frustrating problem in your life, just watch the difference. Most of us will engage with the problem from a place of frustration and end up making it worse. Does this sound like you? In relationships and such? Everything you touch turns to dust kind of thing?

Those who understand the mechanics of the mind will SEE that frustration means they are, at that moment, at a lower level of consciousness. That their judgment is clouded. That they are not thinking with the fullness of creative wisdom that's available to them. At that moment of FEELING frustration, the wise person will allow the mind to settle, allow the frustrating patterns of thought to dissolve. In that dissolving, the mind returns naturally to a state of clarity. In a clear state of mind, there is a free flow of thought, a river of thought, that arises out of the blue.

At a higher level of consciousness, between 2 and 20 solutions become obvious to us that were otherwise invisible and lower levels because the mind was not able to SEE. Our inner wisdom easily addresses whatever difficult challenges lie ahead of us at the practical level.

We are using our freedom of thought against ourselves. You see? Like hitting yourself on the head with a stick. You don't need to do that, and in fact, by doing that, you're suppressing the incredible wisdom of your own being.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 07:14:51 AM by pumita92 »

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2021, 08:59:01 AM »
Quote
The next time you face a frustrating problem in your life, just watch the difference. Most of us will engage with the problem from a place of frustration and end up making it worse. Does this sound like you? In relationships and such? Everything you touch turns to dust kind of thing?

You presume a lot. I evaluate problems and outcomes in terms of probabilities and make decisions based on the best data I can obtain. This has served me well. I even found a partner with the same exact ideas and philosophy. There is no wishful thinking, praying for supernatural intervention, or taking mind altering chemicals. There is appreciation of science, all the arts, nature, history, beauty, and reality. There is no sin. There is sorrow and sadness at times and it makes the good times even sweeter.

You will turn to dust as will everything you touch. Sorry, it's the arrow of time. You can't "think" entropy away. Doesn't mean you have to be all depressed or in denial.


Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2021, 09:09:22 AM »
Pumita, this is for you from a great insightful poet:  Kahlil Gibran

Then a woman said, Speak to us of Joy and Sorrow.
And he answered:

Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.

And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.

And how else can it be?

The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can
contain.

Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter’s oven?

And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives?

When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.

When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline SGOS

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2021, 10:06:25 AM »
Or as a mentor of mine once said, "The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference.

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2021, 06:25:39 PM »
You presume a lot. I evaluate problems and outcomes in terms of probabilities and make decisions based on the best data I can obtain. This has served me well. I even found a partner with the same exact ideas and philosophy. There is no wishful thinking, praying for supernatural intervention, or taking mind altering chemicals. There is appreciation of science, all the arts, nature, history, beauty, and reality. There is no sin. There is sorrow and sadness at times and it makes the good times even sweeter.

You will turn to dust as will everything you touch. Sorry, it's the arrow of time. You can't "think" entropy away. Doesn't mean you have to be all depressed or in denial.


Am I wrong about your relationship problems? I am familiar with the symptoms of a life lived from within the personal thought system, so it's no mystery to me. In order for relationships to feel warm, trusting, and loving, there needs to be the underlying feeling of warmth present. This feeling is not present while the personal thought system is active.

I know that without an awareness of the fact that life is an experience of the power of thought in action, these problems are sure to manifest. Simply because we do not realize we are creating them while we are experiencing them. They manifest for everyone. It's the same story: mild (or severe) depression, insecurity, loneliness, being tired, lack of vitality, constant seeking... relationship problems, work problems. It's all part of the same package.

These are all symptoms of people who live in a simple misunderstanding of the mind, and do not understand their true nature.

Though each problem seems separate and needs a specialized, they all share one common denominator: they are experienced in the moment via thought.

Understanding our true nature leads to an experience of the IMpersonal mind, which can be described as living in the flow of fresh thinking. Rather than holding on to stale old thought patterns and tinkering with them, we let go and allow new ones to arise from within. If you simply let your mind be, the natural trajectory of thought is to leave the mind. In it's wake there is space, and in that tranquility, a beautiful feeling arises. A tranquil mind is always experiencing a beautiful feeling.

If you are purely allowing, you will begin to experience a sort of river of thought, a kind of flow. The less you "fuck with" thought, the more this natural flow takes over. The more it takes over, the more of your own deeper wisdom you will have access to. This natural flow of thought is the natural expression of your own deeper wisdom. It's a source of spontaneous creativity, your inner genius, and where insights come from. It's like unblocking a tap and receiving a stream of fresh water instead of trying to tinker with stale water.

If during an argument with your partner, you have a moment of SEEING that the negative feelings you are feeling are being generated via THOUGHT in-the-moment, and not by whatever you THINK they are being caused by, it will no longer make sense to you to continue to play with thought patterns that hurt you. As you surrender these thought patterns (and you can drop them in an instant), you will return to that natural flow of wellbeing.

In this space is where we find warm feelings and that's how relationships can become beautiful again.

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2021, 06:35:50 PM »
Pumita, this is for you from a great insightful poet:  Kahlil Gibran

Then a woman said, Speak to us of Joy and Sorrow.
And he answered:

Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.

And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.

And how else can it be?

The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can
contain.

Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter’s oven?

And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives?

When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.

When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.

Hm... What does this mean to you, Mike? Are you alluding to the notion that we need to feel pain in order to feel joy? Because that's not true. It only LOOKS true from a particular level of consciousness. And not a good one, believe me.

According to duality, in order to experience satisfaction, you must experience dissatisfaction. Riddle me this, how much of your life have you spend dissatisfied? And how much satisfied? What's the proportion there?

Again, I'm not attacking you. I'm merely inviting you to see in a way that will bring more love and freedom into your life. I am asking nothing in return. If somehow in this in this conversation you realized you could live your life with a deeper, more lasting, and more present sense of joy, wouldn't that be something worth listening to?

I know you're used to conversing with debate. But some things just can't be communicated via the intellect. Some things need to resonate at a deeper level, and the intellect serves as a barrier. It's like a shield you hold up to protect yourself but you're only pushing away love

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2021, 07:24:05 PM »
Hm... What does this mean to you, Mike? Are you alluding to the notion that we need to feel pain in order to feel joy? Because that's not true. It only LOOKS true from a particular level of consciousness. And not a good one, believe me.

According to duality, in order to experience satisfaction, you must experience dissatisfaction. Riddle me this, how much of your life have you spend dissatisfied? And how much satisfied? What's the proportion there?

Again, I'm not attacking you. I'm merely inviting you to see in a way that will bring more love and freedom into your life. I am asking nothing in return. If somehow in this in this conversation you realized you could live your life with a deeper, more lasting, and more present sense of joy, wouldn't that be something worth listening to?

I know you're used to conversing with debate. But some things just can't be communicated via the intellect. Some things need to resonate at a deeper level, and the intellect serves as a barrier. It's like a shield you hold up to protect yourself but you're only pushing away love
Not alluding to anything--just stating the facts.  Let me use an example.  I happen to be a dog and cat lover and have had them for most of my life.  I find sharing my life with these furry creatures adds joy and fun to my life.  When one of my companions die, I suffer pain in the form of grief.  If I had not had these companions, I would not suffer grief from their deaths.  One of the aspects of life on this planet is that it is brief.  Along the path of my life I have lost several companions (not to mention all the humans I've lost).  My life was richer and more joy packed because of them--one of the natural results is that they live a shorter life and that causes pain when they pass.  No amount of a 'deeper consciousness' will change that.  Grief is a part of life.

Intellect is what allows us to traverse this life in a sane way.  Yes, I've searched the other 'levels' of consciousness, and it is simply a dead end.  Just like trying to find the 'super' natural of the universe is impossible, 'levels' of  consciousness is a dead end, as well.  Intellect is what allows us to see and understand what is around us.  I've tried airy-fairy stuff and found no there, there.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2021, 05:08:39 AM »
Not alluding to anything--just stating the facts.  Let me use an example.  I happen to be a dog and cat lover and have had them for most of my life.  I find sharing my life with these furry creatures adds joy and fun to my life.  When one of my companions die, I suffer pain in the form of grief.  If I had not had these companions, I would not suffer grief from their deaths.  One of the aspects of life on this planet is that it is brief.  Along the path of my life I have lost several companions (not to mention all the humans I've lost).  My life was richer and more joy packed because of them--one of the natural results is that they live a shorter life and that causes pain when they pass.  No amount of a 'deeper consciousness' will change that.  Grief is a part of life.

Intellect is what allows us to traverse this life in a sane way.  Yes, I've searched the other 'levels' of consciousness, and it is simply a dead end.  Just like trying to find the 'super' natural of the universe is impossible, 'levels' of consciousness is a dead end, as well.  Intellect is what allows us to see and understand what is around us.  I've tried airy-fairy stuff and found no there, there.

I had a pet too! He survived a fire actually, and I definitely grieved when we had to put him down.

I'll share a story and tell me what occurs to you. When I was 18 I had a girlfriend for a year and a half. I believed she was "the one" and when we broke up I was absolutely devastated. I would cry myself to sleep almost every night, for almost six months. I was actually in the military at that time and one day I cried in the ranks. Couldn't hold it in...

In my mind, at the time, I believed I had to feel x amount of grief for the x amount of joy I felt being with her. To me that was the process. Can't have the rain without the rainbow. In my mind, I believed they had to balance out so I could "complete the cycle" of yin and yang. It made sense to me.

When I finally moved on, eventually I got another girlfriend. We had a beautiful relationship too, for about the same amount of time. It was deep and meaningful, but eventually, we did break up, I started grieving again. I recalled having grieved for six months the previous time and I just thought "Not this time."

I wasn't suppressing my emotion. I simply let it go. I didn't really give much attention to grieving thoughts. It's not like I pushed them away. But the natural trajectory of a thought is for it leave our awareness. It's our digging-into-it that makes the experience persistent. And so simply by allowing that natural flow of thought to take place, I was able to live my life joyfully.

There is always so much to be grateful for. The grief wasn't making room for joy, it was obscuring the joy that was always present in my life.

During that first six months of grieving from my first girlfriend, I had no idea that I was creating the experience through thought the entire time. It felt so real and so overwhelming to me. I didn't know that *I* was exercising my freedom to create the experience of grief. I thought it was happening to me. Not from me. But the real-feelingness of an experience isn't evidence for it's importance, it's just a demonstration of how powerful and convincing thought feels in the moment. But thought can change moment by moment. This is very difficult to see when we feel shrouded by negative emotion, however, it still remains true.

When we see that joy is the undercurrent of experience, duality becomes non-duality. Non-duality is impossible to intellectualize because the intellect can only understand things in contrast. But seeing from a deeper place, a place beyond the intellect, enables us to become aware of the undercurrent of beauty and joy in our experience. This beauty and joy is never lost but only obscured by thought. In the absence of thought, in a tranquil mind, the beauty rises to the surface of awareness.

And in fact, it's those moments we spend with our loved ones when the mind is quiet that we really see and appreciate the beauty in them and all around us.

I have had many opportunities to grieve in the last few years. Some people close to me died. I had very small bouts of grief, if any. Simply because I would rather feel the joy. The joy has never felt. The joy has been consistent. The feelings of gratitude have been consistent.

So let me ask you a question... what if you didn't need suffering to experience happiness? What if you didn't need pain to make space for joy? What if the belief in duality was simply a result of a misunderstanding of the mind? A misunderstanding of the source of experience?

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2021, 09:33:49 AM »
I had a pet too! He survived a fire actually, and I definitely grieved when we had to put him down.

I'll share a story and tell me what occurs to you. When I was 18 I had a girlfriend for a year and a half. I believed she was "the one" and when we broke up I was absolutely devastated. I would cry myself to sleep almost every night, for almost six months. I was actually in the military at that time and one day I cried in the ranks. Couldn't hold it in...

In my mind, at the time, I believed I had to feel x amount of grief for the x amount of joy I felt being with her. To me that was the process. Can't have the rain without the rainbow. In my mind, I believed they had to balance out so I could "complete the cycle" of yin and yang. It made sense to me.

When I finally moved on, eventually I got another girlfriend. We had a beautiful relationship too, for about the same amount of time. It was deep and meaningful, but eventually, we did break up, I started grieving again. I recalled having grieved for six months the previous time and I just thought "Not this time."

I wasn't suppressing my emotion. I simply let it go. I didn't really give much attention to grieving thoughts. It's not like I pushed them away. But the natural trajectory of a thought is for it leave our awareness. It's our digging-into-it that makes the experience persistent. And so simply by allowing that natural flow of thought to take place, I was able to live my life joyfully.

There is always so much to be grateful for. The grief wasn't making room for joy, it was obscuring the joy that was always present in my life.

During that first six months of grieving from my first girlfriend, I had no idea that I was creating the experience through thought the entire time. It felt so real and so overwhelming to me. I didn't know that *I* was exercising my freedom to create the experience of grief. I thought it was happening to me. Not from me. But the real-feelingness of an experience isn't evidence for it's importance, it's just a demonstration of how powerful and convincing thought feels in the moment. But thought can change moment by moment. This is very difficult to see when we feel shrouded by negative emotion, however, it still remains true.

When we see that joy is the undercurrent of experience, duality becomes non-duality. Non-duality is impossible to intellectualize because the intellect can only understand things in contrast. But seeing from a deeper place, a place beyond the intellect, enables us to become aware of the undercurrent of beauty and joy in our experience. This beauty and joy is never lost but only obscured by thought. In the absence of thought, in a tranquil mind, the beauty rises to the surface of awareness.

And in fact, it's those moments we spend with our loved ones when the mind is quiet that we really see and appreciate the beauty in them and all around us.

I have had many opportunities to grieve in the last few years. Some people close to me died. I had very small bouts of grief, if any. Simply because I would rather feel the joy. The joy has never felt. The joy has been consistent. The feelings of gratitude have been consistent.

So let me ask you a question... what if you didn't need suffering to experience happiness? What if you didn't need pain to make space for joy? What if the belief in duality was simply a result of a misunderstanding of the mind? A misunderstanding of the source of experience?
Interesting.  I am affected by grief, but not as profoundly as you seem to be.  I've lost grandparents, parents and even a grandson.  Many pets have lived in my space and are gone.  I grieve for them all.  I had a divorce and grieved that as well (a relationship died).  In all instances I totally give in to that grief and literally roll in it!  It is one huge and deep pity-party!  Then I come out of it.  Well, never totally out of it in the sense of never feeling that grief ever again.  For example, my mother died over a decade or so; I still feel grief, but only very briefly, but I still do miss her presence in my life, even though she lives in my memory.  And the same with all the deaths I've had happen in my life.  I don't regard grief as a blockage of joy.  It is simply part and parcel of living; it is a part of the fabric of life.  I don't think of it as a 'duality' but something that is part of the entire package of being alive.  One could strive to be emotion free, but that would deaden the joyful impact of relationships of any kind.  Why live?  If one is going to love one is going to be impacted by grief.  But also a whole lot more of joy and the celebration of life.  Grief and pain give a contrast to the joy and love we feel from the same sources.  In order to get rid of the grief and pain, one would also have to get rid or the source of love and joy.  One could work at not feeling any pain nor grief; but that would be like killing part of oneself to protect oneself.  So, I accept life; and I try to follow Joseph Campbell's motto--follow your bliss.  And I do.  So, I accept the joy and love of life and also the pain and suffering of grief.  It's just life.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Levels of Consciousness
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2021, 01:06:54 PM »
Interesting.  I am affected by grief, but not as profoundly as you seem to be.  I've lost grandparents, parents and even a grandson.  Many pets have lived in my space and are gone.  I grieve for them all.  I had a divorce and grieved that as well (a relationship died).  In all instances I totally give in to that grief and literally roll in it!  It is one huge and deep pity-party!  Then I come out of it.  Well, never totally out of it in the sense of never feeling that grief ever again.  For example, my mother died over a decade or so; I still feel grief, but only very briefly, but I still do miss her presence in my life, even though she lives in my memory.  And the same with all the deaths I've had happen in my life.  I don't regard grief as a blockage of joy.  It is simply part and parcel of living; it is a part of the fabric of life.  I don't think of it as a 'duality' but something that is part of the entire package of being alive.  One could strive to be emotion free, but that would deaden the joyful impact of relationships of any kind.  Why live?  If one is going to love one is going to be impacted by grief.  But also a whole lot more of joy and the celebration of life.  Grief and pain give a contrast to the joy and love we feel from the same sources.  In order to get rid of the grief and pain, one would also have to get rid or the source of love and joy.  One could work at not feeling any pain nor grief; but that would be like killing part of oneself to protect oneself.  So, I accept life; and I try to follow Joseph Campbell's motto--follow your bliss.  And I do.  So, I accept the joy and love of life and also the pain and suffering of grief.  It's just life.

Sorry about your mom, and especially your grandson. That must have been tough.

Hmmm... I am all for full acceptance of the whole of the human experience. Meaning to embrace and allow every thought and emotion that passes through you fully. I sometimes refer to myself as a "passive receptor of life". An empty vessel through which life expresses itself. As "that which experiences life", I feel the feelings fully.

The thing is, throughout much of my life, I used this idea that you can't have the rainbow without the rain as a means to make the rain seem more palatable (though I do love rain actually!). I didn't realize through those times that I did have freedom in me. I didn't realize that I was actually giving energy to painful thoughts without even realizing it, and creating a lot of unnecessary suffering for myself. I was under the misunderstanding that life happened TO me, not that my own thoughts were creating my experience and my feelings - and they just felt really compelling and real in the moment.

I've dealt with a lot of insecurity throughout my life. And I had spent most of my life seeking security in all sorts of stuff... money, people, things, working out to look better, etc. And I never actually realised that how I feel is (and has always been, will forever be) simply a shadow of the quality of thought passing through my mind. Thought, originating from within, appearing to be outside me.

So it wasn't like "I was going through a breakup", it was like, breakup thoughts were arising in me, and because I didn't understand how the mind worked, I innocently gave them my attention and created more pain in myself.

My life didn't get duller when I started to allow those painful thoughts to pass, in fact, it got brighter and more beautiful. I have attempted to share this simple understanding with many people. Few people see it in an instant and have eureka moments, most fight me and argue with me. I really don't mind because I know what it's like. I just never know when the right sentence might hit home for someone. One profound insight into the nature of thought and a life of hell can turn into heaven in an instant. Happiness is never more than one thought away. Allow painful thoughts to dissolve and happiness returns. Happiness is inherent to a tranquil, clear mind. Negative emotion needs thought to support it.

So... it's actually the opposite that happened as I began to understand the simple mechanics of the mind that I had overlooked. My life just got better and better and better. Life got easier and easier and easier. I didn't need to practice mindfulness or anything. Everything just changed when I had an insight. I was feeling more grateful by the day. And this whole notion of needing to suffer to feel good simply made no more sense to me.

My friend/roommate Chris for example has always believed that because I didn't spend much time dwelling on insecure, depression, or frustrating thoughts, that that meant I couldn't feel the beauty and joy of life as deeply. And so in his head, he thought I was living a 'grey' life. He always argued with me about how crazy my ideas were. How it was all too simple for me. He was my roommate for four years. He had gone to several counselling sessions in the interim that had been marginally helpful. It wasn't until I moved out that he began to reflect and see that I had been pretty consistently enjoying life while he was usually anxious, depressed, or worried.

He contacted me and said he really wanted to listen to what I had to say. So we sat through a zoom session together (to break the pattern of him getting angry with me, we didn't meet in person), and we spoke for an hour. He started to see what I was talking about. And that weekend he told me something changed in him and he felt much more comfortable in himself. His social anxiety was gone, he was playing and smiling and having fun with new friends - something he forgot he could do without feeling anxious. Simply because he had an insight into the nature of thought, the nature of where his experience was coming from. He was able to feel comfortable in himself. How amazing is that?

We do have freedom! We choose which thoughts to give energy to, and we're choosing in every moment whether we realize it or not.