Author Topic: Boulder shooting, Colorado  (Read 487 times)

Online Mr.Obvious

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Boulder shooting, Colorado
« on: March 23, 2021, 04:23:32 PM »
 Ten dead, once more. Poor goddamned people.

Boulder, huh?
Fitting, let the never ending dance of 'gun control' start anew.
Push that Boulder uphil, sisyphus. Watch it come crashing down. And round and round we go, spilling blood and wasting lives.

For such smart Creatures, we're really dumb as a collective, aren't we?
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2021, 05:07:08 PM »
Ten dead, once more. Poor goddamned people.

Boulder, huh?
Fitting, let the never ending dance of 'gun control' start anew.
Push that Boulder uphil, sisyphus. Watch it come crashing down. And round and round we go, spilling blood and wasting lives.

For such smart Creatures, we're really dumb as a collective, aren't we?
Especially if the 'collective' you are talking about happens to be the USA.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Hydra009

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2021, 05:28:45 PM »
Nothing is going to change unless the law changes.

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2021, 05:54:41 PM »
Nothing is going to change unless the law changes.

Yes. Additionally, nothing is going to change unless the culture changes. There are Americans whose sincere response to this shooting is for everyone to be armed. Many Americans feel it is perfectly acceptable to stand their ground and shoot people if they perceive themselves to be threatened. It's the first response to a perceived physical threat. I've asked people who own guns for protection if they considered non-lethal weapons and the answer is often no. I've asked if they have a home security system or motion sensor lights or security doors. Nope... but they have a gun. How many times when gun control measures in other countries are proposed in the US the response is "that won't work here."
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2021, 06:19:21 PM »
This year is as bad as 2020, with these shootings an China, North Korea, and Russia being giant dicks.

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2021, 09:48:13 PM »

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2021, 06:35:33 AM »
Yes. Additionally, nothing is going to change unless the culture changes. There are Americans whose sincere response to this shooting is for everyone to be armed. Many Americans feel it is perfectly acceptable to stand their ground and shoot people if they perceive themselves to be threatened. It's the first response to a perceived physical threat. I've asked people who own guns for protection if they considered non-lethal weapons and the answer is often no. I've asked if they have a home security system or motion sensor lights or security doors. Nope... but they have a gun. How many times when gun control measures in other countries are proposed in the US the response is "that won't work here."

Too young and too big. How many countries are there in the States, and how many cultures and sub cultures in them?

It's just about one place I guess, but when I first learned about the 'land rush' concept, I was pretty young and it blew my mind. I was like 'Wut?' :lol: I mean the country I live in, the republic (which is dead now) is a hundred years old, and the empire before that was just 600 years old, but groups of Turks have lived in Anatolia alone for a thousand years and before that in central Asia and around have changed places back in thousands of years more. Turkic poeple in general... Similar peoples with similar culture have been fighting each other since time immemorial. The historical structures, esp. religous structures have changed hands so many times, there are mosques built on churches built on ancient temples built on sacred places before that. There isn't a road or piece of dirt that isn't trodded on, some ruins that weren't built over and over again. There is no new land. Hasn't been any for sooo long a time. There are still land lords and tribes...that's why it keeps falling backwards.

But Americas. Esp the North America...Even though the most of the land is uninhabitable, there were no established arhcitectural, written culture when white Europeans invaded the land. Nothing but vast open space. How do you survive in a land like that? You get armed and you get extremely territorial. The land. You own up to it and fight for it to death. Your ancestors have shot horse thieves and whoever tresspass or threatened their land. Was there another way? Now they probably shoot car thieves and anyone gets into their property exactly the same. If this culture hadn't evolved this way, would there have been an America? Is it good, bad? From whose point of view?

Yeah, colonies had 'owners' in Europe before independence, but it must have been a real jungle for a very long time and that culture looks like it's still alive. How long has it been really? 200 years the most? Less? It's a very little amount of time for a new land and culture.

I have no idea. But American culture always looked too tough to me. Competititon is too harsh. Culture is too harsh on its people and so the people are too harsh on each other considering the opportunities the have. And so are the rules. It's cut off from the world. I might be wrong of course, but it looks like when you drop below a certain bar in the US, it is almost impossible to come back. It looks like the culture have less shades of grey, more black and white compared to the old world.
 
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 06:40:57 AM by drunkenshoe »
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2021, 09:38:00 AM »
Too young and too big. How many countries are there in the States, and how many cultures and sub cultures in them?

But Americas. Esp the North America...Even though the most of the land is uninhabitable, there were no established arhcitectural, written culture when white Europeans invaded the land. Nothing but vast open space. How do you survive in a land like that? You get armed and you get extremely territorial. The land. You own up to it and fight for it to death. Your ancestors have shot horse thieves and whoever tresspass or threatened their land. Was there another way? Now they probably shoot car thieves and anyone gets into their property exactly the same. If this culture hadn't evolved this way, would there have been an America? Is it good, bad? From whose point of view?

Yeah, colonies had 'owners' in Europe before independence, but it must have been a real jungle for a very long time and that culture looks like it's still alive. How long has it been really? 200 years the most? Less? It's a very little amount of time for a new land and culture.

A comparison between Australia and North America would be interesting. Both were colonized by Europeans, Australia later than North America.

Per 100,000 people:
Homicide rate: USA=4.96, Australia=0.89
Firearm-related death rate: USA=12.21, Australia=1.04
Suicide rate: USA=13.7, Australia=11.7



Of course, just looking at statistics doesn't mean much. It would be interesting to read a comparison of how each culture evolved in terms of government, violence, and conflict.

But American culture always looked too tough to me. Competititon is too harsh. Culture is too harsh on its people and so the people are too harsh on each other considering the opportunities the have. And so are the rules. It's cut off from the world. I might be wrong of course, but it looks like when you drop below a certain bar in the US, it is almost impossible to come back. It looks like the culture have less shades of grey, more black and white compared to the old world.

I think American culture is generally more individualistic and competitive than many other cultures. We say we are family-oriented but typically multiple generations don't live in the same household or even the same city. Starting at birth, we want our kids in the best daycare, the best school, the best peer group, the best sports team, the best college, the best career... "Average" is a pejorative. We are a nation of loud, glorious winners and silent, tragic losers.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 01:30:29 PM by GSOgymrat »
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Offline Hydra009

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2021, 11:09:48 PM »
Of course, just looking at statistics doesn't mean much. It would be interesting to read a comparison of how each culture evolved in terms of government, violence, and conflict.
Australia had a particularly horrific mass shooting at Port Arthur and as a result, adopted much stricter gun laws.

The USA, in contrast, suffers horrific mass shootings on the regular and adopted upside-down graphs that make the problem look less like a problem.




Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2021, 07:06:12 AM »
...I think American culture is generally more individualistic and competitive than many other cultures. We say we are family-oriented but typically multiple generations don't live in the same household or even the same city. Starting at birth, we want our kids in the best daycare, the best school, the best peer group, the best sports team, the best college, the best career... "Average" is a pejorative. We are a nation of loud, glorious winners and silent, tragic losers.

Agreed. I don't think you are family oriented in a different way. The general human culture defines being family oriented as something positive and I think that is the reason peoples, cultures like to think they are. I don't agree that being family oriented is a 'good' thing for a society considering almost no culture in the world is free from some level of religious or nationalist indoctrination in childhood. Esp. religion. 

For American culture, the freedom and some sort of an American dream...etc. seems to be highly functional -at least as a motivation- in domestic level. So people leave their families at a young age, to get into to the competition, but also the hot zones in the jungle are the places they can live their lives with their own identities and beliefs, free and away from what they were born into - which is something we can't choose. That's a pretty big motivation for a lot of groups. Also these people are the people who push and preserve these places with those higher standards.

Now, this is technically the same everywhere around the world, but as the US is so huge, diverse and practically made of different many countries where the competititon is too high, the big pic is different than other places, imo. You need to travel hours with a plane, not hours with a car or a bus to reach your family. This is pretty important. Because domestic travel in the US means serious time, money and  planning beforehand. (If we want to visit some family in another city, we jump in a car and drive for 5 hours, that's it. I travel for an hour to see my parents at the summer house, and there is commercial transportation at every hour. The longest distance in the country is 2 hours by plane.)

That transforms the human, family relationships and connections strongly, and probably the American culture evolved in a more individualistic way also because of this. And it probably contributed to the over all 'professionalism'. Most people do not care how their offspring lives as long as they are healthy and fine. And this vision requires nontribal human connections, pushes the family culture to be that way. Yes, it also puts a natural distance between all people, but I don't agree that it is something bad. It's pretty good actually. Because in opposite, so called warm and hospitable cultures that warmth and hospitality have a price. You know what it is. People are living in each other's lives, parents and people in powerful positions in groups, dictate, oppress, even harm and injure, kill others. It's a big scale with shades of greys and black.  (This exists in secular groups too.) So it is bullshit. It's shit. If you are not living in that majority, you are naturally alienated. Yeah it's much better than the option imo, but far less practical in many ways.

So it is a good cultural trait in my opinion.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 07:10:44 AM by drunkenshoe »
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2021, 12:18:48 PM »
Many Americans only think of gun ownership in terms of rights and not public health. Organizations such as the NRA have promoted legislation to specifically prevent gun violence being studied as a public health issue. The NRA pushed through the Dickey amendment a provision inserted a rider into the 1996 United States federal government omnibus spending bill which mandated that "none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control." Enforcement of this has gone back and forth. Fortunately, in 2018 Congressional negotiators reached a deal for the fiscal year 2020 federal budget included $25 million for the CDC and NIH to research reducing gun-related deaths and injuries, the first such funding since 1996. In 2011 Florida passed a law restricting doctors from discussing firearms with patients, which has fortunately been found to be unconstitutional. There are other examples of how a segment of Americans are concerned with protecting the right to own firearms regardless of the consequences for public health.

On the topic of guns and public health, according to the CDC, 62% of gun deaths in the US are suicides. When it comes to suicide, having a gun in your home is essentially like having a suicide pill. It’s a pill that doesn’t require a prescription and you can buy as many as you like. People often leave their suicide pills on nightstands or unlocked cabinets where anyone, including children, could get them. In fact, suicide pills could be used to kill other members of the household—have a fight with your wife and slip it in her morning coffee. If you asked a sensible person if it is a good idea for people who suffer from depression with suicidal ideation, a history of suicide attempts, or impulse control issues to have suicide pills readily available they would probably agree this isn’t a good idea. Yet many people don’t think of guns this way.
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2021, 12:23:23 PM »
I was thirteen when our neighbor blew his brains out with a shotgun. His wife came over and ask me to check on him. (I was the oldest male in easy reach I guess.) Still remember the splatter pattern on the wall.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2021, 01:32:17 PM »
I was thirteen when our neighbor blew his brains out with a shotgun. His wife came over and ask me to check on him. (I was the oldest male in easy reach I guess.) Still remember the splatter pattern on the wall.

That's horrible for anyone but especially at your age.
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2021, 01:43:47 PM »
Yeah...it is horrible. I wondered if she was scared he'd shoot her, but she should have heard the sound I guess. Maybe she thought in any case, he wouldn't harm him or something like that.
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Re: Boulder shooting, Colorado
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2021, 02:55:39 PM »
Yeah...it is horrible. I wondered if she was scared he'd shoot her, but she should have heard the sound I guess. Maybe she thought in any case, he wouldn't harm him or something like that.
She knew he was dead, but she didn't want to see the mess. "I could remember him as he was the last time I saw him alive."

Thanks, lady.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers