Author Topic: Conspiracy theories  (Read 1358 times)

Offline Hydra009

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2021, 10:55:11 PM »
The crazy thing about the Millerites is that they didn't die out, they just rebranded.

The Shakers (which pretty much entirely died out, celibacy tends to do that), Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Davidians and their offshoot the Branch Davidians, and various other minor (I wanna use the word cult) sects.

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2021, 09:04:43 AM »
The crazy thing about the Millerites is that they didn't die out, they just rebranded.

The Shakers (which pretty much entirely died out, celibacy tends to do that), Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Davidians and their offshoot the Branch Davidians, and various other minor (I wanna use the word cult) sects.
Yes, I find that amazing.  But I shouldn't.  I don't think the tale of the Millerites is unique.  Or even all that rare. In the Millerites instance, they not only did not die out, but eventually became bigger and stronger.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Hydra009

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2021, 12:20:24 PM »
Eh, I dunno about bigger.  Seventh Day Adventists = ~21.4 million and Jehovah's Witnesses = ~8.5 million, out of upwards of 900 million protestants.  Not insignificant, but dwarfed by other groups.  I'm not sure how many Millerites existed originally, though.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 12:26:08 PM by Hydra009 »

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2021, 12:56:20 PM »
Some of my lunatic cousins took the GED yesterday, forty in all. About twenty left without finishing the test and the rest failed it. (Who says there's no prayer in the classroom?) They were all homeschooled. The parents are going to sue Biden for not providing the necessary tools for success. Seems this part of the plot to get kids back where they can be endoctrinated in the liberal lifestyle.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2021, 01:02:37 PM »
Eh, I dunno about bigger.  Seventh Day Adventists = ~21.4 million and Jehovah's Witnesses = ~8.5 million, out of upwards of 900 million protestants.  Not insignificant, but dwarfed by other groups.  I'm not sure how many Millerites existed originally, though.
Enough to cause quite a ripple effect thru the ages.

'False Prophet William Miller and The Seventh Day Adventists went on to spawn, in 1955, the Davidian Day Adventists, many of whose members perished in the fiery inferno that ended the infamous Waco Seige of 1993. (see David Koresh)

Other groups that would evolve from The Great Disappointment, either directly or indirectly, include The Christadelphians (circa 60,000) , The Church of God Seventh-Day (circa 200,000), The Church of God General Conference (circa 300,000) Church of the Blessed Hope (circa 800) The Seventh Day Adventists Reform Movement (circa 35,000) Davidian Seventh Day Adventists (unknown) United Seventh Day Adventist (unknown) primitive Advent Church (circa 500) and The Sabbath Rest Advent Church (circa 250).

Finally, Charles Taze Russell admitted that a presentation by Millerite preacher Jonas Wendell in 1870 (outlining Wendell’s own belief that Christ’s Second Coming would happen between 1873 & 1874) was the direct catalyst for the formation of his Bible Student Movement the same year. That group, which later included Millerite writers George Stetson and George Stoors, eventually led to the formation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1931 (approx eight-million)'
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline SGOS

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2021, 01:12:54 PM »
Some of my lunatic cousins took the GED yesterday, forty in all. About twenty left without finishing the test and the rest failed it. (Who says there's no prayer in the classroom?) They were all homeschooled. The parents are going to sue Biden for not providing the necessary tools for success. Seems this part of the plot to get kids back where they can be endoctrinated in the liberal lifestyle.
Assuming you are not exaggerating, I wouldn't have thought the GED was that hard, or that a large segment of the population couldn't pass it.  But I never took it, so I don't really know.  The way you have talked about your cousins in the past, I'm wondering why they wanted to take it at all.

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2021, 01:13:37 PM »
The parents are going to sue Biden for not providing the necessary tools for success.

I don't understand.
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2021, 07:15:30 AM »
I don't understand.
Neither do they. But they hope to get some money without working, so they take a shot. The judge called their last class action suit in one word, "Frivolous".
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2021, 07:19:33 AM »
Assuming you are not exaggerating, I wouldn't have thought the GED was that hard, or that a large segment of the population couldn't pass it.  But I never took it, so I don't really know.  The way you have talked about your cousins in the past, I'm wondering why they wanted to take it at all.
The "home schooling" the kids get is 99% from the Bible, the only book most of them have at home. Some of the kids learned to read by watching subtitles on TV. As for the GED, the parents had them take "so we can show ya'll intellectuals that kids can be educated at home." I know kids who did very well being home schooled, but the parent really has to participate in the education for it to work. With my cousins this is seldom the case. And most of the kids want an GED so they can get into the Army.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2021, 08:24:14 AM »
OK, that makes sense. 

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2021, 08:30:19 AM »
I think of what Noam Chomsky says about public schools, that they are all about solidarity. In the 50's and 60's there was so much care put into public education. In the 90's I started hearing coworkers bitching big-time about taxes for schools. How fucking short-sighted can you get?
We moved around a lot when I was a kid. We headed from New England down South for my 5th grade. They were relatively at a 3rd grade reading and math level. I immediately got bored and often disciplined for yacking and ended up in a Catholic school, even worse..the uselessness of reciting fucking rosary beads for hours of torture. Their idea of PE was playing 4-square out in the church parking lot. I checked out a medical book about tropical diseases to gross the other kids out with the pictures. I think they thought I was devil-spawn.

Offline SGOS

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2021, 09:20:46 AM »
Education is a lower priority today.  I've thought about this too.  Both parties want to be the education party, but really they care most about their image, not the actual priority.  I remember Regan cutting education budgets, while claiming he could provide better education for less money.  Of course, that was a wonderful thing, but of course, it was nonsense.  It was brilliant politics that appeals to public fantasy, but it was mostly nonsense.  Everyone wants everything for less, for nothing if possible.  Education is very expensive.  I cannot imagine how to make it less expensive without making it less.

Also, as much as I think it's a good thing, I'm not sure how necessary it is today.  You can educate brilliant minds, but if you have nothing for them to do when they are ready to work, what have you accomplished?  And what good are smarter adults to either political party where the funding starts?  And then there is public perception that is not all in agreement about public school priorities.  Should it be football for their boys or more challenging classes?  Should it be easier grades or more challenge?  Not everyone has the same priorities, so there is no public movement toward a specific goal.

Back to Regan, I remember his education czar, I think it was William Bennett, making the case that teachers could be paid half salaries, because so many teachers were married to other teachers, giving them a double salary that they didn't need.

The bottom line is that I'm not sure Americans overall value education that much.

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2021, 09:28:50 AM »
Regan was the one who started this slide into what the country has become--1% land with room for nobody else.  A tiny example or two.  He shut down a large number of mental facilities and the patients then became homeless on CA streets.  And he passed a law that allows teachers to only get 50% of their social security--he labeled it double-dipping.  While he double-dipped himself with his actors guild pension, gov. of CA pension and so on.  Even though I managed to get my 40 quarters in, I receive only 50% of what I should. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline SGOS

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2021, 09:35:14 AM »
About putting mental patients out on the streets, I remember Regan saying, it was really what the patients wanted.  Yet the man was one of our more popular presidents.

Re: Conspiracy theories
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2021, 10:11:04 AM »
I wonder if the MGTOW thing is akin to conspiracies? A lot of them are way right of center. Have a nephew who went through that, but seems like he is over it now. They are a funny bunch. Saying stuff about women like this makes me chuckle, maybe because there is truth in it.

Woman, age 20: "Don't talk to me."
Woman, age 30: "He's talking to me!"
Woman, age 40: "Please talk to me!"
Woman, age 45: "Hey, I'm talking to you!"
Woman, age 50: "Here kitty, kitty, kitty!"