What GOVT changes do you welcome?

Started by Cassia, December 16, 2020, 04:58:03 PM

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viocjit

Quote from: Cassia on December 16, 2020, 04:58:03 PM
I like the Nordic social democracy model. They seem to produce happier results. I think our current system of pure capitalist (99% vs 1%) cruelty has just revealed itself as an abject failure and future times are only gonna get tougher.

The Nordic model emphasizes society-wide risk sharing and the use of a social safety net to help workers and families adapt to changes in the overall economy brought on by increased global competition for goods and services.  It combines features of capitalism, such as a market economy and economic efficiency, with social benefits, such as state pensions and income distribution. Also known as the Scandinavian model, it is most commonly associated with the countries of Scandinavia: Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, and Iceland.

Towards that direction I would be for:
-Popular vote only...end the electoral college
-Access to mandatory universal health and mental care
-End offshore tax evasion banking and corporations
-Decriminalization of recreational drug use and prostitution
-Simple more progressive tax rates (plus carbon use taxes, plus wealth tax for billionaires)
-Added taxes/fees for offshoring jobs and outsourcing labor.

What changes would you like to see?


In which country do you live and what is / are you(s) citizenship ? I suppose you live in USA as the majority of people on this board.
Did you already lived in another country than the one in which you live now ?
I live in France and I lived my whole life in France as a French citizen (I haven't another citizenship).

You're speaking about the Nordic model and I have things to say about it.
"-Decriminalization of recreational drug use and prostitution" is one of your will for your country but you cited Nordic model.
Do you know in Iceland , Norway ,Sweden people face prosecution if they pay for sex ?

Wikipedia about prostitution in the country of ice  : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland
Wikipedia about prostitution in Kingdom of Norway : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Norway
Wikipedia about prostitution in Kingdom of Sweden : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden
"Eva Marree Kullander Smith" "AKA""Petite Jasmine" a victim of Swedish policy about selling sex : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Marree_Kullander_Smith

Baruch

Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 18, 2020, 01:42:20 AM
Oh, and put a cap on the filibuster.

We need to return to pre-Civil War incivility ;-) ... Cane other members of the Congress, and have open carry of guns in the chamber ;-))

BTW - the Swiss model of public/private health insurance is very well designed.  Americans will never copy it, because our whole existence is to game or rip off whatever system we have, because Americans are shit.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#47
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 17, 2020, 09:57:51 PM
FDR's predecessor tried hard to screw things up during the transition, he was hoping for support for the next election. It didn't work.

Herbert Hoover was an engineer, same as Jimmy Carter.  Don't elect engineers!

So, even though FDR/Dems won both House and Senate, they were destroyed by the all powerful Republicans?  It was a little more complicated than that.  Prior to being President, Hoover was admired, and his work after being President was also admired (same as Jimmy Carter).  Compare Obama/Hillary/Biden after 2016.  Hoover was the first President who tried to deal with the Stock Market Crash and resulting bank failures.  Mad investment speculation had been going on since 1914 (war profiteering).  The Smootâ€"Hawley Tariff was a huge mistake, and Hoover signed it.  But neither President can be blamed for the Dust Bowl, the farmers and the weather created that.  FDR benefited from Hoover's failure, he could see that bolder action was required, and FDR did it.  That is why there was the attempted coup and the attempted assassination.

Our current mad investment speculation has the same cause (war profiteering).  The reforms to the investment system put in by FDR were repealed by Bill Clinton et al in 2000.  That is why 2008/2009 happened, and will happen again.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cassia

viocjit,
Yes, thankyou, I am talking general attitudes. I would say they are more open-minded about it and that decriminalization of the prostitutes in the Nordic countries is a step in the right direction. It is a difficult law to enforce and being illegal, prostitution leads to all sorts of other harmful issues. In general, I think that much of the religious US is really uptight about sex. They are sexually repressed and immature and see it as 'dirty' and 'sinful' and prostitutes end up being victimized much more here.

Baruch

Quote from: Cassia on December 18, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
viocjit,
Yes, thankyou, I am talking general attitudes. I would say they are more open-minded about it and that decriminalization of the prostitutes in the Nordic countries is a step in the right direction. It is a difficult law to enforce and being illegal, prostitution leads to all sorts of other harmful issues. In general, I think that much of the religious US is really uptight about sex. They are sexually repressed and immature and see it as 'dirty' and 'sinful' and prostitutes end up being victimized much more here.


Go back in time, forbid the Puritans/Yankees to come here.  I am not repressed.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

GSOgymrat

Quote from: Baruch on December 18, 2020, 09:45:56 AM
BTW - the Swiss model of public/private health insurance is very well designed.  Americans will never copy it, because our whole existence is to game or rip off whatever system we have...

I think a healthcare system similar to the Swiss model could pass with bipartisan support because it provides affordable healthcare to everyone while preserving private insurance. Eliminating private insurance in the US will be extremely difficult, especially with the current justices on the Supreme Court.

Baruch

Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 18, 2020, 10:43:11 AM
I think a healthcare system similar to the Swiss model could pass with bipartisan support because it provides affordable healthcare to everyone while preserving private insurance. Eliminating private insurance in the US will be extremely difficult, especially with the current justices on the Supreme Court.

Well, the current SCOTUS is no problem, just have a violent communist revolution if they don't do what you want?

In a Swiss system, how can the rich nakedly exploit the poor?  How can the poor nakedly game the rich?  Can the US even make decent chocolates?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hydra009

#52
Quote from: viocjit on December 18, 2020, 06:58:25 AMYou're speaking about the Nordic model and I have things to say about it.
"-Decriminalization of recreational drug use and prostitution" is one of your will for your country but you cited Nordic model.
Do you know in Iceland , Norway ,Sweden people face prosecution if they pay for sex ?
And in Denmark?  Couldn't help but notice the conspicuous omission.

(Note to my FBI agent: I googled "Denmark legal prostitution" for educational purposes only!  I'm not planning a trip.  Unless...  no wait, that's against the rules.  Yeah, no trip for me)

While you do have a good point that all the Nordic countries aren't exactly all on the same page (so it's a good idea to be more specific about policies we would like to see adapted here), I think we can all agree that overall there is quite a glaring policy difference from the USA.

Cassia

The electoral college may have made sense to protect rural areas from being overwhelmed by urban interests until the advent of social media, data collection, and machine learning. If elections are coming down to a few states and a few hundreds of thousand of votes....I can only imagine how voters are being targeted by political action groups. The general election is 'safer' from that bullshit. However after thinking about this a little more I am curious about the ranked choice voting system as implemented by the State of Maine.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/ranked-choice-voting636934215.aspx


Baruch

Yes, back in the day when 90% of us were honest hard working farmers (ripping off Natives and Slaves) ... the cities (which control so much of banking for example) are a threat ;-0

Now that we are exploring the Gamma Quadrant with Captain Janeway ... the US government system is obsolete.  Give me warp drive, or give me Klingons!

I look forward to our Chinese overlords making the BLM etc into chop suey.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

viocjit

Quote from: Cassia on December 18, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
viocjit,
Yes, thankyou, I am talking general attitudes. I would say they are more open-minded about it and that decriminalization of the prostitutes in the Nordic countries is a step in the right direction. It is a difficult law to enforce and being illegal, prostitution leads to all sorts of other harmful issues. In general, I think that much of the religious US is really uptight about sex. They are sexually repressed and immature and see it as 'dirty' and 'sinful' and prostitutes end up being victimized much more here.


Even if prostitution was decriminalized in the countries mentioned in my previous message. Prostitutes are living in conditions that aren't suitable for a Western country (As a French citizen who did never hold another citizenship. As a person who did never lived elsewhere than France. I'm not legitimate to criticize as I'm a not a citizen of one of these countries and did never lived in one of these) and this is a shame for these places in my opinion.

The states of the Western world pretend to respect human rights and being free.
I don't think it is normal to criminalize buying of sexual services between consenting adults. Where is freedom when no one is injured and can't do it legally ? If prostitution is considered as self-harm why not decriminalize buying of sexual services to improve life conditions of sex workers.
The laws against those who want purchase sexual services have negative impacts on the life of the workers like hide theirs occupations to avoid social services take custody of theirs children , hide from landlord if work happens at home because the landlord must not accept you work in his/her property because if so he/she became a criminal under the law and many others consequences.

One of the consequence is the fact people working with theirs body can work with violent criminal networks to avoid problems with pacific landlords who observe law (Immigrants from Eastern Europe and Balkan , Africa ,  South and Central America , Asia. Immigrants from these part of the world are the most impacted in my knowledge).
Sex workers can look for pacific landlords who don't care about law but it does seem there are more possibilities to fall on a violent criminal network than a pacific landlord and if you don't know the language of the country in which you live this is more difficult to meet a pacific landlord who don't care about law.
Landlords can make a denunciation to theirs activities to social service to take custody of children of prostitutes.
A landlord can blackmail sex workers to get sex for free and if the prostitute accept he/she won't speak to social services.

Decriminalization doesn't means end of persecutions. No criminal prosecutions doesn't means no persecutions.

In USA prostitution is illegal in many parts of this country and the same for buying sexual services.
Yes , it is worse than the northern European countries that did only prohibited purchase of sexual services but these nordic countries can't be an example for the world in this matter.

Mike Cl

In a safe and sane world (I know--what world is that??) legal prostitution would be the norm.  Nevada has had a dual system for decades.  Anybody who compares the legal brothels to the illegal sex trade in Reno and Las Vegas can see the stark contrast.  Just getting rid of the primps is a huge improvement for the sex workers.  Apparently 66 times the money is spent in illegal sex in those two cities, compared to the 21 legal brothels around the state.  And the legal sex workers enjoy much better conditions than the illegal ones.  Once again, religion rears its ugly head in all of this.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

#57
"The prostitution laws in the state of Nevada comes with a number of requirements which need to be met before it can be considered legal. Prostitution is only legal in licensed brothels and condoms must be used. ... Other counties where prostitution is illegal includes Douglas County, Eureka County, and Pershing County." .. so yes, part of the US is like the Netherlands, but much dryer.

Proper courtesans cost real money, and you can't abuse them.  I don't see Johns as being nice people.  Once of my cousins, a hundred years ago, ran a bordello in Dallas, and was murdered by a John.  Men think with their dicks.  It would be wise to exterminate them or cut their dicks off ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

GSOgymrat

Quote from: Mike Cl on December 23, 2020, 01:43:05 PM
Just getting rid of the primps is a huge improvement for the sex workers.

I know that is a typo but it cracked me up!

Sex work isn't the same as typical work, just as sexual assault isn't the same as physical assault. It is understandable there are taboos and prejudices regarding selling sex. My feeling is that, as with illegal drugs, prohibition often leads to worse outcomes than the acts themselves. From what I know of some of the legal brothels in Nevada, prostitution can be done safely for everyone involved. There are also "massage parlors" and online arrangements where transactions are conducted safely and discreetly. I'm for decriminalizing and regulating sex work to protect those involved but not eliminating all restrictions.

viocjit

#59
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 18, 2020, 06:12:50 PM
And in Denmark?  Couldn't help but notice the conspicuous omission.

(Note to my FBI agent: I googled "Denmark legal prostitution" for educational purposes only!  I'm not planning a trip.  Unless...  no wait, that's against the rules.  Yeah, no trip for me)

While you do have a good point that all the Nordic countries aren't exactly all on the same page (so it's a good idea to be more specific about policies we would like to see adapted here), I think we can all agree that overall there is quite a glaring policy difference from the USA.

I don't read Danish , Finnish (Not a language of the Scandinavian area. This language is not a Germanic language a subfamily of Indo-European languages like DK , IS , NO and SE. This is not even an Indo-European one. This is a Finno-Uralian one) , Icelandic , Norwegian (There are two writing standard one is bokmål and the other is nynorsk) and Swedish.
Therefore I can't read law texts and read what local say about enforcement of these policies in the reality (With laws. It can happens there are a huge difference between what say texts that is the theory and the enforcement in real world that is the practice) on websites used by locals.
It is better if we can read websites in local languages to have access to a better plurality of opinion.
A local on a foreign website would lead to partial information and partial opinions of the population because we haven't sufficient people to know what local think and understand rightly the situation.

Never forget each countries are different. If you haven't sufficient people to explain you the differences (Police structure , judicial structure , laws etc...) you can misunderstood things. You can find information in English on Internet but often information that aren't in local languages are not complete.
For example to understand the police structure of France (I'm a citizen of this country and lived there my whole life) you must understand this is a "Constitutional semi-presidential unitary republic" unlike USA that is a "Constitutional presidential federal republic".

In United States of America there are federal law enforcement (ATF aka Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives , DEA aka Drug Enforcement Administration , FBI aka Federal Bureau of Investigation etc...) , states law enforcement (CHP aka California Highway Patrol , Department of Public Safety of the State of Texas , NYSP aka New York State Police etc...) and law enforcement acting at a local levels (Boroughs , Counties , Cities , Parishes , Towns , Universities etc...) like CPD aka Cleveland Division of Police , LVMPD aka Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department , MIT Police aka Massachusetts Institute of Technology Police Department etc...

In French Republic that is a unitary state and not a federal one. The notion of federal crime doesn't exist. Therefore we haven't federal law enforcement but national law enforcement.
As the law is the same everywhere (With some adaptations and derogation write in the laws for some place. For example the police can keep you for a duration of 4 hours for a verification of your identity if you're not accused to have violated the law. But in Mayotte an overseas department and region it can be up to 8 hours. I won't explain you what is an overseas department and region unless someone ask because my message is long) because it is a unitary state the laws are the same in all the regions of France.